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Mudrat
10-04-2004, 07:58 PM
Hope y'all vote on Nov 2 better than you vote here :roll: Extremely Long rant - but remember what you read AND that Kerry is PRO UN and ANTI- American rights.!


NRA-ILA Grassroots Alert Vol. 11, No. 39 10/01/04 http://www.nraila.org/

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VICTORY IN D.C. AS "PERSONAL PROTECTION ACT" PASSES U.S. HOUSE!In a tremendous pro-Second Amendment victory, on September 29, the U.S. House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the "District of Columbia Personal Protection Act--" legislation seeking to restore the right of self-protection to law-abiding citizens of Washington, D.C. HR 3193, which was introduced by Representatives Mark Souder (R-Ind.) and Mike Ross (D-Ark.), passed by a bi-partisan vote of 250-171. The bill is the House companion to Senate bill S. 1414, introduced by Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah). The legislation now heads to the Senate for approval.

Please contact your U.S. Senators and urge them to cosponsor and support S. 1414. You can find contact information for your elected officials by using the "Write Your Representatives" tool at www.NRAILA.org, or you can call your U.S. Senators at (202) 224-3121.WATCH THE U.N. GUN DEBATE ON PAY-PER-VIEW!A Special Message from NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre: Tune in to iN DEMAND Pay-Per-View and Watch the U.N. Gun Debate!Make plans now to watch iN DEMAND Pay-Per-View on October 12 for my 90-minute debate with international gun-ban ringleader Rebecca Peters. And after the debate, be sure to vote on whether the U.S. Senate should approve the U.N.'s gun-ban treaty!

Rebecca Peters almost single-handedly brought gun confiscation to Australia and to England, and is now the most feared gun-banner in the world. With more than 500 gun control organizations under her command worldwide, and with the unlimited financial backing of billionaire George Soros, she's determined to make gun confiscation a reality here in the United States- through a U.N.-backed treatythat would be binding on every American citizen.
You and every American gun owner need to watch this debate-and see first-hand this enormous and very real threat to our Second Amendment rights. Tune in on October 12, and you'll see how gun banners have taken over the U.N.-and how they intend to infect America with their anti-gun poison. You'll see for yourself how the biggest coalition of gun-ban organizations ever assembled on earth is working with the U.N. and with U.S. politicians to take away your rights. You'll learn the truth about George Soros - the foreign-born American financier who is spending his personal fortune to advance the global gun-ban movement as well as elect John Kerry to the White House on November 2. And you'll see for yourself why U.N. gun-ban extremists will be rejoicing around the world if John Kerry is elected President. To prevent our nation from living under this soon-to-be-drafted United Nations gun ban treaty in the years ahead, every American needs to know what the U.N. intends to do with our Second Amendment rights-and every gun owner needs to watch this debate. Please tune in to this historic debate. See the threat for yourself. And invite your gun-owning friends, neighbors, and co-workers to watch with you. I promise you, you'll never look at the U.N. in the same way again-and you'll get the information you need to help defeat this U.N.-backed effort to ban our guns. Thanks in advance for watching-and for Voting!SHOWTIME: Tuesday, October 12, 9:00 p.m. - 10:30 p.m., EST

HOW TO ORDER: iN DEMAND is the world's largest provider of Pay-Per-View television programming. Ordering methods vary from one local cable system to another, with the use of either your cable remote or your telephone. Call your local cable company for more information about its Pay-Per-View ordering process. Pricing is also determined by your local cable system. Please note that this debate will not be available on DIRECTV, Dish Network, or any other satellite network. Remember, the calling volume increases immediately before the start of an event. In order to avoid getting a busy signal we recommend that you place your order several hours beforehand. Thank you in advance for watching this important debate!!!IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE DEBATE: DON'T FORGET TO VOTE!At the end of the debate, you'll be provided a password allowing you to vote, using the Internet or your telephone, on this critical question: "Should the United State Senate ratify the proposed United Nations treaty that bans private ownership of firearms?" It's vitally important for gun owners to win this vote-and show the world that we won't give up our Second Amendment rights without a fight! But only those who have ordered this Pay-Per-View show and obtained the password are allowed to vote. So please, make sure to watch at the end of the show for your password, then cast YOUR vote for freedom!

SHOWTIMES (All Showtimes are Eastern Time)Tuesday, October 12-9:00 p.m. - 10:30 p.m.Tuesday, October 12-10:30 p.m. - 12:00 a.m.Wednesday, October 13-12:00 a.m. - 1:30 a.m.Thursday, October 14-6:30 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.Friday, October 15-5:30 a.m. - 7:00 a.m.Friday, October 15-11:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.Saturday, October 16-3:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.Sunday, October 17-9:30 a.m. - 11:00 a.m.Monday, October 18-11:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.Monday, October 18-8:00 p.m. - 9:30 p.m.Tuesday, October 19-6:30 a.m. - 8:00 a.m.Wednesday, October 20-4:30 p.m. - 6:00 p.m.Wednesday, October 20-11:00 p.m. - 12:30 a.m.BE SURE YOU REGISTER TO VOTE! One of the simplest, yet most important, things gun owners can do this election season is ensure they are currently registered to vote. Our vote is our voice; if we don't use it, we will lose it! We can't afford to let others decide for us who will represent our interests in Washington or in the state legislature. Even if you can't vote in person on November 2, your voice can still be heard! Early voting (where one votes prior to Election Day, either in-person or by mail) is underway now, or will commence shortly, in many states. Also, every state allows absentee voting if you plan to be away on November 2. But time is running out! Remember, some states require individuals to register to vote well in advance, so if you haven't registered, please be sure to do so right away! NRA-ILA has a section on its website that will provide you with information about early voting and absentee voting options that will make your participation easier. You can also use this site to register to vote, or to update your voter registration to reflect a recent change in residence. To access this site, please go to www.NRAILA.org, and click on the "NRA-ILA HelpingAmericansVote" icon and select your state. Or, you can go directly to the site at http://NRA.HelpingAmericansVote.org.GRADES & ENDORSEMENTS NOW AVAILABLE ON NRA-PVF SITE! The official NRA campaign site- www.NRAPVF.org -will serve as your one-stop campaign reference guide this election season. The site is loaded with all of the critical information you'll need to make informed decisions on Election Day, November 2. Included on the site are news stories, articles from NRA's magazines, NRA-PVF press releases, polling information, and, as of today, a complete listing of NRA-PVF candidate grades and endorsements! In addition to all of the late-breaking campaign news, candidate grades and endorsements, and firearm issue background information, you will also find our multimedia section- www.nrapvf.org/Multimedia/Default.aspx -which houses easy-to-access ads that are perfectly suited for distribution among your fellow NRA Members! You may have seen our most recent ad campaign: "John Kerry-That Dog Don't Hunt." You can view this add and help us spread the word about Kerry's campaign to deceive America's sportsmen by ordering your own "That Dog Don't Hunt" t-shirt. Please visit these sites frequently and share them with your fellow NRA Members.With so few days between now and Election Day, November 2, please be sure that you leave no stone unturned in your efforts! Keep up the great work, and "Vote Freedom First" on November 2! NRA-ILA GRASSROOTS ELECTION WORKSHOPS With the 2004 elections now only a month away, NRA-ILA is winding down its FREE Grassroots Election Workshops across the country over the next week. These Workshops provide NRA members with training on what they can do locally to propel pro-gun candidates to victory in 2004. The meetings also provide a venue for lawmakers, candidates, and their staffs to reach out to NRA members and explain their positions on our Right to Keep and Bear Arms.Remaining Workshops are slated for: -Flagstaff, Arizona 10/2/04-Spokane, Washington 10/2/04-Pensacola, Florida 10/2/04-Orlando, Florida 10/4/04-Menomonie, Wisconsin 10/5/04-Fort Myers, Florida 10/5/04-Coral Gables, Florida 10/7/04-Westby, Wisconsin 10/7/04NRA members who are interested in attending should contact the NRA-ILA Grassroots Division at (800) 392-VOTE (8683) for details and to reserve their seats. NRA members who have access to the Internet can also go to www.nraila.org/workshops/ to reserve their seats on-line (if available).A LOOK AT THE STATESALASKAOnce again, out-of-state animal "rights" extremists are seeking to force their will on Alaskans by seeking to ban the use of bear management techniques commonly used by the Department of Fish and Game. Funded largely by fanatical anti-hunting groups such as Greenpeace and PETA, this ballot measure would, in addition to restricting the methods used by hunters to attract bears, ban the intentional feeding of bears for the purpose of photography or viewing, and prohibit the Alaska Department of Fish and Game from live trapping and relocating problem bears. If found in violation of this proposed law, one could spend a year in jail and face a hefty $10,000 fine for each offense. It's time to say "NO" to a radical agenda that would prevent Alaska's professional game biologists from utilizing one of the most effective game management tools available. It's time to say "NO" to extremists who seek to punish law-abiding Alaskans for protecting their children and pets from predatory bears, and it's time to say "NO," once and for all, to out-of-state interests that would deny local control or public involvement on an issue of this importance. Please be sure to encourage your family, friends, and fellow sportsmen to vote "NO" on BALLOT MEASURE 3 in the November 2 election. ARIZONANow is the time to make reservations for the "My Gun Saved My Life!" banquet celebrating the 10th Anniversary of Arizona CCW Law. The banquet will be held tomorrow, Saturday, October 2, at the Shrine Auditorium in Phoenix. Doors will open at 3:00 p.m., and a prime rib dinner will begin at 7:00 p.m. NRA First Vice President Sandy Froman will be one of the gun-rights speakers featured at this event. Tickets are still available and can be reserved by calling: (800) 426-4302 between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. PDT, M-F. Proceeds after expenses will be donated to benefit the Arizona State Rifle and Pistol Association's Junior Firearms Education Program. Please encourage your family members and friends to attend as well. MAINENational animal "rights" groups, led by the Humane Society of the United States, have organized and funded a ballot initiative for the November 2 election that would ban the three traditional methods of bear hunting--baiting, hunting with dogs, and trapping. These groups routinely use ballot measures to curtail hunting throughout the country and have been successful in several states, including banning all trapping in nearby Massachusetts. Please be sure to encourage your family, friends, and fellow sportsmen to vote "NO" on QUESTION 2 on this initiative in the November 2 election. MONTANAThe voter registration deadline for November's general election, is Monday, October 4. Please visit http://nra.helpingamericansvote.org, to learn more about registering to vote in your state. NEW YORKOn Sunday October 3, from 1:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. (Doors open at 12:00 Noon), the Sportsmen's Association for Firearms Education Inc. (S.A.F.E.) will be hosting its "2004 Right to Carry Conference" & Second Amendment Rally. The event will be held at the Sheraton, Long Island, 110 Vanderbilt Motor Parkway, Smithtown, NY, (631) 231-1100, (on Motor Parkway on North side of LIE between exits 53 & 55). In attendance at the event will be: Wayne R. LaPierre, NRA Executive Vice President; The Honorable Bob Barr, Former Member, U.S. House of Representatives; Kayne Robinson, NRA President; John C. Sigler, NRA Second Vice President; Jim Fotis, Executive Director, Law Enforcement Alliance of America; John L. Cushman, S.A.F.E. President and NRA Director. Candidates for U.S. Senate from New York have also been invited! At the conference, you will get the latest information on the Right-to-Carry on Long Island, meet and network with fellow sportsmen, raise issues of concern with local and national leaders of Second Amendment organizations and local legislators, and win valuable prizes in drawings limited to attendees only. Admission & parking is free and the event is open to your family and friends. WYOMINGThe voter registration deadline for November's general election, is Monday, October 4. Please visit http://nra.helpingamericansvote.org, to learn more about registering to vote in your state.

FrankNB
10-05-2004, 09:15 AM
You guys in the states have it backwards.. :razz:

Is banning cigarettes an infringment on your rights? What about banning heroin for sale at Walmart? Well controlling guns is the same.. You know all that bullshit that your propagandist NRA is pumping down your throat is just to secure their own multibillion dollars in gun and ammo sales at the expense of millions of other victims.. Wasn't it MC that was held at gun point in a bar a few weeks ago? The easy availability of guns will not help your gun and crime problem in the states..

The US, the only place in the world where everybody wants an SUV so they can be as big as everybody else on the road...

No offence intended... Just my friendly 2 cents.. from your Friendly Neighborhood Acadian..

Goose
10-05-2004, 09:33 AM
Frank.. I'm normally calm and mild mannered as hell but what you just posted is such a load I can't let it pass..The USA is the only place where we live free because we are free to choose whats right for us.. I'm not a billionare industrialist and I want to own guns, My country has fought to earn it's freedom and will fight to maintain it, And I'm willing to fight to protect myself and my family..Do you really think that Banning guns is the answer? Do you think the criminals will obey the gun ban? The answer is no. The criminals (who by definition are people who break laws) will always have guns The propaganda is whats being spouted by those Weak kneed cowards who are afraid of guns and or a populace who has both the power and the means to resist either a tyranical government or an armed invasion. Have you forgotton the history of your own country? If there hadn't been guns and men with enough grit to use them you wouldn't have one. An as for Everybody wanting an SUV to be as big as the next guy.. Don't you believe it, thats more media crap People buy SUV's because they want one or have a need for one and Since we aren't loaded down with the burdens of a socialized medical system and exhorbitant taxation to "The crown" We can afford one..

So the next time you hear on the news some tin-pot despot has deposed the rightfull government in some other country you think about whay that doesn't happen here..and why this country has never been succesfully invaded.. Because every farmer,Rancher and swinging dick in this country would fight.

I would close with this, You like your country and the way it does things? Good , Enjoy life you are in the right place, I enjoy the rights and freedoms in my country I'm in the right place. But If you don't live here and vote here then be quiet. Please dont misunderstand this is not a personal attack anymore than you r comments were.. Just my friendly (If somewhat passionate) two cents worth. End of Rant.

FrankNB
10-05-2004, 10:05 AM
No offence taken, I take your point. But I will not shut up, I can't, the right of free speech exists in other countries than your own.. and that was plain rude..
Gun control and gun banning is not the same. And owning a rifle in this century will not defend your right unless you're a hillbilly defending some chickens from a fox.. Limiting the access to guns is the issue. As for the health care issue and taxes, that's a different issue also.. Mostly one you can trace back to pharmaceutical profits. The reason why they're crying that you guys are buying your drugs over here to save money.. There's your great healthcare.. Hey, I can't be that far off the mark of some of the things I've said.. I don't have cable, I don't read the newspapers, don't listen to the news... On the other hand, I read alot of books.. lately about corporate propaganda... You should read the books "Weapons of Mass Deception", and "Mad cow USA".. Very recommended.. :idea:

My closing comments: Your country is a very powerful one, especially economically. I have plenty of admiration for what you can accomplish. With us sharing borders, alot of your influences get washed away over here. The sad part is most often, the bad stuff comes with it too. So even though I do not have a direct vote in your country, it eventually affects my rights as living on the same planet. Funny, when you need oil and opium, you don't mind setting up a democratic system in other counstries..

jeepsr4ever
10-05-2004, 11:15 AM
I Love labatts and maple syrup! Really though Guys politics are soo hard to talk about. It would be like converting my love of jeeps to love of geo's

FrankNB
10-05-2004, 11:58 AM
You're right MC.. politics and opinions.. pretty much all the same, very subjective..

rollen dean montoya
10-05-2004, 03:47 PM
i'll throw this fact at y'all. when law abiding citizens were forced to turn in their guns in australia the crime rate went thru the roof! in the u.s states that have a right to carry law have the lowest crime rates. this is NOT made up but was published by the F.B.I.! guns DO NOT KILL, people do!
a gun is merely an istrument,nothing more. remember that criminals will still have guns even if the government takes guns away just ask the aussies! just thought you might want to know.
later, rollen :lo1l:

Goose
10-05-2004, 05:49 PM
Good point rollen, and all too true.

But what is also true is that I'm here to Enjoy the Jeep experience not get wrapped up in politics (again).. So Frank, Youre opinions are as valid as mine from your perspective and location.
So Enough with the Rants and on with the Jeeps! Which is most emphatically not an SUV by todays standards! Isn't it amazing that a grand wagoneer parked amongst the latest "Tank chassis" Suv's would be considered Rinky dink and small?

I thought my first Waggie was a pretty luxureous (sp?) ride leather seats etc But alas no cupholders BUUUUZZZZ Disqaulified by todays standards.

Mudrat
10-05-2004, 08:09 PM
'Nuther fact(s)
Russia had gun control when Stalin murderd 12+ million
Germany had gun control when Hitler murdered 6+million Jews, several million of his own people and tried to take over the world.
Morton Grove, IL enacted gun control and violent crime increased 56%
Austrailia enacted gun control and violent crime increased >300% (yeah, no mis print >300%!!)
England enacted gun control and required citizens to turn in firearms look what's happening there!!! (OBTW the Liverpool police have full auto's and shotguns in EVERY patrol car becasue the citizens are unarmed, but the crooks aren't - been there, seen it and played with them!!)
FL enacted less harsh concealed cary laws and crime DROPPED over 50%
The states that have adopted reciprocity for concealed weapons permits - crime rate DROPPED by various percentages.

Doesn't take a brick upside my head to tell me guns in the hands of honest citizens reduces crime. Which would also reduce the number of folks visitiing the Canadian health care facilities and allow your competitive rifle teams to onece again be competitive, instead of coming to the states like the Brits have to do to practice!!

Mudrat, and I STILL believe what made this contry free was the well intentioned use of lawful firearms.

Mudrat
10-06-2004, 07:24 AM
I Love labatts and maple syrup! Really though Guys politics are soo hard to talk about. It would be like converting my love of jeeps to love of geo's

Well you did wear a Ford hat for a week :shock: Not to big a step (down) into a Geo :?

Mudrat

#18 with 57 - go vote!

Phil
10-06-2004, 08:46 AM
I gotta throw in my .02 here. Besides the "saving us from the criminals" lie(They wont follow the law anyway) The thing I here most often as a reason for gun control/banning/confiscation,it all ends up being the same thing, is we need to do it to protect the children. I have either owned my own firearms or had them in my home since I was just a diaper wearin carpet crawler. I have children of my own now and I do have firearms in my home. The key is EDUCATION and PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. I knew growing up when to and more importantly when NOT TO handle or otherwise mess with the weapons in the house(Thanks Dad!) and I knew what would happen to me if I did.
I get so sick of the pansy @ss liberals who belive that the government has to save us from ourselves.

Be a member of the N.R.A. go to your local city council meetings, inform yourself on the issues that affect us, and VOTE.

And dont forget the most important thing of all, Hug your children, tell them every day that you love them, make time for them and educate them.

Mudrat
10-06-2004, 10:38 AM
AMEN!!! Well said.

Pat


I gotta throw in my .02 here. Besides the "saving us from the criminals" lie(They wont follow the law anyway) The thing I here most often as a reason for gun control/banning/confiscation,it all ends up being the same thing, is we need to do it to protect the children. I have either owned my own firearms or had them in my home since I was just a diaper wearin carpet crawler. I have children of my own now and I do have firearms in my home. The key is EDUCATION and PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. I knew growing up when to and more importantly when NOT TO handle or otherwise mess with the weapons in the house(Thanks Dad!) and I knew what would happen to me if I did.
I get so sick of the pansy @ss liberals who belive that the government has to save us from ourselves.

Be a member of the N.R.A. go to your local city council meetings, inform yourself on the issues that affect us, and VOTE.

And dont forget the most important thing of all, Hug your children, tell them every day that you love them, make time for them and educate them.

Dusty
10-06-2004, 10:47 AM
How many law enforcement agents would it take to protect each and everyone of us at the time of a crime. When wa the last time that a LEA was on site at the time of the crime not ten minutes or more later after you called them.

What is proposed by many.... diane Finestien, Barbra Boxer, Hillary Clinton, Mrs. Hienze-Kerry. Is that the goverment should be able to support us via, socialist security, Single prayer Health care and increasing the number of LEA on the streets to lower crime all paid for by the soon to be proposed increased taxes.

It costs $400-700 for me to own a hand gun, and it makes a criminal question whether or not he should try and rob me. It costs (a guess here) $150,000 every year per LEA to be added to the street where it still takes him 10 minutes or more to respond AFTER the crime has happened.

Add it up, the increased costs of operation, the continual high taxation of your personal income how much of that money taken by the govt goes to purchasing goods, goods that in turn create jobs and drive the economy vs. feeding a government machine that increases its overhead each year. How much of your income after it has been taxed do you spend on luxury goods, the same goods that dive Diversity and spur technology development equating into new jobs in our Economy.

Not as much as you would if you werent being taxed so much to provide all those services, when in truth you are capable and could create and manage your own savings/ retirement, manage your own healthcare that is tailored provides services that meet to your needs not paying for services you will never need, and LEA's who 99 out of 100 times show up after the crime has occured when most crimes could be prevented by the lingering question in the criminal's mind of whether or not this potential victim is going to fight back and possible kill them.

FEAR is a great scare tactic, what made you behave as a child.............. What makes a government........treat its citizens humanely...... What makes a criminal think twice before commiting a crime.

Power and Greed are driving forces behind everyones motives, nomatter how well we supress it someone else will still want to have more control. "God made some men big and some men small, But Sam Colt made them all equal"


A remaining question do you feel Equal or less than to the LEA's or for that matter anyone in your country.


I will tell you that down here even a cop is still no more than you or I he has no more right to enter my house than i into his.

Goose
10-06-2004, 02:10 PM
Ya know something I've always wondered about.. Why do burglar alarms always sound like a police siren?? Crooks obviously don't fear police, Just being caught. What we need is the amplified sound of a 12 guage shucking a round into the chamber.. If that sound doesnt cause a crook to run like hell then you can bet that he intends for there to be no witnesses anyway.

Just a side note I live in RURAL Nebraska 40 miles from the sheriffs office and if you want to see something funny a prim 75 year old lady in her nightgown holding a Would be burgler in the corner with a 1897 winchester 12.gauge is Some funny..That kid was begging us to make that crazy old lady put down the gun and take him away. this lady shakes like a leaf in a breeze normally , Some kind of palsey but buddy, that muzzle never wiggled and she didn't say a word just had that varmint in the henhouse look on her face. by the time the sheffifs deputy showed up it was over 45 minutes later. Guess mebbe the "Greatest generation " still has little steel in them after all huh?

Mudrat
10-07-2004, 06:28 PM
That's great! Reminds me of that story of the 80YO grandmother who hunted down her grand daughters rapist and neutered him with one round :2gunfire:

Mudrat

Goose
10-07-2004, 09:46 PM
Ya kind of makes ya wonder , If violent crime and violent criminals had more to fear than a judge (Like say for instance retribution or the victim suddenly defending themselves with deadly force) Violent crime would drop substantially. It has been proven.. The average criminal is too lazy to work, too stupid to fear consequences less immediate than death and for the most part a craven coward.

If you run you will only die tired.

rollen dean montoya
10-07-2004, 11:02 PM
nufdum hit it right! all opinions are valid even if they may not be what some of us want to hear. i personally have confronted a person trying to assault a 14 year old girl. held the suspect at bay with a desert eagle .50
cal hand cannon till the police got there( 3 min after the 911 call). the guy had soiled his clothes. the police thanked me for a job well done. the guy got 25 years cause he was a repeat offender. this happened in idaho
about 6 years ago.
later, rollen :lo1l:

Mudrat
10-08-2004, 04:44 AM
Good Job Red Dog!!!

Mudrat
#19 with 69 - time to VOTE y'all I did

Goose
10-08-2004, 10:30 PM
Jeez Red Dog! If someone had .50 pointed at me I'd soil myself too!
Now thats a "Hand gun"!!

Right on though, Wonder how many "Citizens" would have said Oh I dont want to get involved ! and kept right on truckin!

Lifted79CJ7
10-09-2004, 09:39 AM
:? =D> :t: :lo1l:

Hell yeah Rollen!! Awesome job!!!! You should taken a few toes off just cause of the principal of what he was doing - perps are dirty little fawkers and need more than jail in my book!

rollen dean montoya
10-12-2004, 07:00 PM
the cops thought it was really funny cause this dude was supposed to be some kind of tuff guy. i thought the odds needed to be evened up alittle :lo1l: :mrgreen:

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