304 vs 360

[eight]

So I need a another motor for my jeep. Its a CJ8 on fullwidths with 36s, an np435, and 4.10 axle gears.

I've found a 304 with everything I need to swap (accessories, exhaust, motor mount brackets, flywheel, another radiator, etc) for $150. It still runs and is in a jeep so I can test drive it, but supposed to be worn. Idles with 15 psi oil pressure. As far as I know its all stock internally.

And then a 360 in a wagoneer, that the guy know's nothing about, like if it will run, last time it ran, or any problems. He just bought the waggy for the axles. I can get it for about $50, with whatever parts I want from the waggy. I'm gonna guess this one will need some rebuilding to use.

Is there a big difference in power between the two engines? Should the stock 304 have much more power than my stock 90 yj 258?

I've also heard a slight mention of a possibility of getting a 401 from a international dump truck.......so I'm hoping for that.

[jeepsr4ever]

The 304 will have a little more top end and maybe a smidgen more torque than the 6. The 360 is more powerfull all around. Thats a tough call....tufcj what do you think?

[FrankNB]

Well, my roommate built his YJ 4.0 with the stroker kit and fuel injection.. It's now a fuel injected 4.7 litre.. It's rated at 270HP and plenty of torque, that's probably right up there with any 304 and some mild 360s.. He gave me a few drives in it, and it's plenty strong, he smokes his 36" TSLs.. If you live in the cold, fuel injection is nice... I don't mind a carb since mine is not a daily driver.. And I find fuel usage is just about the same whatever you put in a Jeep... the bigger the motor, the less strain on it, so fuel usage evens out, at least for highway figures.. Personnally, I would go the mildly built 360 way with a Q-jet or truck avenger, if not only for the coolness factor.. And it's a great feeling to start that beast when you had it parked for a week or so... :lo1l:

[jeepmonster]

So I need a another motor for my jeep. Its a CJ8 on fullwidths with 36s, an np435, and 4.10 axle gears.

I've found a 304 with everything I need to swap (accessories, exhaust, motor mount brackets, flywheel, another radiator, etc) for $150. It still runs and is in a jeep so I can test drive it, but supposed to be worn. Idles with 15 psi oil pressure. As far as I know its all stock internally.

And then a 360 in a wagoneer, that the guy know's nothing about, like if it will run, last time it ran, or any problems. He just bought the waggy for the axles. I can get it for about $50, with whatever parts I want from the waggy. I'm gonna guess this one will need some rebuilding to use.

Is there a big difference in power between the two engines? Should the stock 304 have much more power than my stock 90 yj 258?

I've also heard a slight mention of a possibility of getting a 401 from a international dump truck.......so I'm hoping for that.

Hi,

For the price it is'nt that tough a decision really, get BOTH the 304 and the 360!!!! Just getting the 304 doenst make much sense when you can get a 360 on top of it for another 50 clams, that is a situation that should be hard to pass up..get both of them, then you will have the luxury of using the motor that needs the least work. If the 304 is running and getting 15 psi of oil pressure at idle it sounds at least like the bearings are good and it probably has a lot of useable running tim left in it. I'd drop in the 304 barring any major problems with it, and put the 360 on an engine stand and tear it down for inspection. and rebuild it over the winter, then come summer time you'll have a built 360 to drop in if you want. :lo1l:

[pyagid]

jeep monster has the exact recomendation i was going to suggest.

304 sound like a good runner, drop that in get it going, rebuild the 360. When that is all set, 360 will be a direct swap

-Paul

[eight]

Yea I was thinking of that. But I'm sure if I wait to build the 360, I'll find a 401 and then I'll have all these extra motors layin around. If I get the 360, I might as well save the $150 for the 304 and put it to a cheap rebuild on the 360. The only thing I'd want from the 304 for the 360 would be the flywheel, if its the right one. What this "winter" you speak of?

Whatever I get will be put to use with the stock carb while I collect GM TBI parts.....

Anyway, getting that 401 is sounding more promising. Just have to convice a friend that he'll never use it, since he's got a rebuilt 360 installed and about 4 days of work done over the past 4 years on his CJ buildup. Found out its a runner.

I'll eventually end up building a 4.6 stroker for my brother's YJ. My most recently died 258 has the short nosed crank for it.

[tufcj]

There's no replacement for displacement. :mrgreen: I went from a well built 304 to a very mild 360, and the 360 wins hands down. Keeping it mild gave it a whole lot more bottom end torque and it has more HP up top.

I run a bone stock bottom end, with an Edelbrock Performer cam and manifold set, very mildly ported/polished 291 heads w/roller rockers. It does most everything off road at idle. I have a low mile 401 sitting in the garage, but I'm so happy with the 360, I'm in no hurry to swap.

I'll second using the 304 to get it running, then building the 360. I got my 360 for free from a parts truck a buddy bought. He called one morning and said the junkyard ws coming to pick it up, and I could have the motor if I got there before they hauled it away.

Bob.
tufcj

[Dusty]

I too agree, Ray had a tired old 304 that ran like a stripped ass cat. which he used last year to get him by after the old 360 suffered a come apart. The motor he had before that was a 360 he built 20 years earlier and had wheeled hard ever since.


Id buy both run the 304 to work the drivetrain bugs out (something i wish i had done to mine) then the 360 hands down though, the difference between a well built 360 and a 401 is noticable but the step up from a 304 to a 360 is like night and day.

1 side not do a good job on the 360 dont chince. You'll be alot happier in the end.

:t:

[eight]

What sort of drivetrain bugs could I expect? Mine's got np435/d300/d44/d60. Hmm, our jeeps are about same, is yours red too?

A good high dollar rebuild is not gonna happen now. Me not got money much.

[Dusty]

:shock:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/197187802/197192441aAtPAn
http://community.webshots.com/photo/197187802/197192445JokyVE



Scary, Luckily i fixed that
:wink:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/197187802/211002897DOaJcm


I was just hinting at possable forged pistons and aluminium heads which if budgeted right and shopped around can be done under $2500. Seems like head jobs are 700+ alot of times so for the extra 600 your getting alot of bonus'. UI guess ill have to take back the drivetrain comment aside from have you upgraded the tail housing on the D300 ( i know i havent) spent all my upgrade money on Fools injection

[eight]

Oh, so it was missing. Mine makes a little noise, but no missing. :mrgreen:

[Dusty]

Yeah i had a little more work involved with mine, few more bugs to work out than one thats already dialed :? I got really carried away with mine, i should have K.I.S.S but instead you see the result and so does my wallet this year.

Thats alright i push it up and down the driveway and make Vroom Vroom noises it makes me feel better 111!!!

I still think you could do a 360 cheap. Cast pistons, a good cam and machine work for pretty reasonable

[thejeepingoat]

What this "winter" you speak of?

talking about that cold front that hits once a year?

:?

[eight]

So 360s the way to go? It'll be better than playing the lottery, I may win or lose with it, but at least I'll have something. If its no good I can probably part it out on Ebay and make some money.

[eight]

Ok new option.

360 from an 83 cherokee, been in a CJ for the past few years. New timing chain. Good compression. Idles with 30 psi. New flywheel. Accessory brackets, intake, and exhaust manifolds from a 401 of unknown year. Origional carb and one from 401. $175.

[FrankNB]

Ok new option.

360 from an 83 cherokee, been in a CJ for the past few years. New timing chain. Good compression. Idles with 30 psi. New flywheel. Accessory brackets, intake, and exhaust manifolds from a 401 of unknown year. Origional carb and one from 401. $175.

SOLD!!!!

[Lifted79CJ7]

If I am not mistaken, you will need CJ exhaust manifolds. I could be mistaken, though.

[eight]

Why is it I'd need CJ manifolds? I wasn't aware of a difference. Can anybody who knows for sure confirm?

[FrankNB]

If I recall one guy was mentioning this to me also... because I have a YJ and the frame is wider the regular manifold were ok.. apparently a CJ frame is different, and that places the manifold very close to the frame and he had to reroute his brake lines and fuel lines so they didn't heat up.. I think shorty headers can solve part of this problem... That's all I've heard, and I have no direct experience with it...

[thejeepingoat]

if its already in a CJ, and hes putting it in a CJ.........what problems is he gonna run into? :-|

[FrankNB]

... but we don't know if the CJ was modified...

[Mudrat]

VOTE!!!

We're being caught by the Russian Nissan 4x4 Club!!! Only 5 ahead at 11:25 :shock:

Mudrat

[FrankNB]

I did twice already today.. just to be sure..

[eight]

The CJ's frame was not modified. Its basically a 76 CJ5 with a springover. But I don't know what he used for exhaust, I'll ask. I don't get the exhaust he used, I get the exhaust manifolds off the 401 he's putting in.

[XJ-001]

there are no CJ-specific exhaust manifolds, only CJ-specific headers. The exception MIGHT be very late FSJ manifolds used in the 80's, and would only be the left manifold that is different.

[jeepsr4ever]

CJ AMC V8 drivers side exhaust manifold has a different dump angle

[eight]

He used CJ 304 manifolds. CJ and car left manifolds dump closer to center than the waggy/truck manifolds. All right side manifolds are the same. Exception is that late waggys had small restrictive manifolds. The truck ones are supposed to work anyway. Comes close to the floorboard, makes it hotter, I'll put a heat shield.

He's keeping the ignition off of it. Giving me the distributor from the 401 but its old and crappy and points. Any way I can use my 258's distributer?

[Lifted79CJ7]

I don't think so, but I think MC was working on a HEI setup if I am not mistaken. Now if he will only comment on it!!!

[eight]

It doesn't work, somethin about its too long. Duraspark is what I'll need anyway for when I put the GM fuel injection on. So I'll just find one of those.

[bobhalverson]

if you want to spend a lot of money, get the 401 from the dump truck- it won't have much wear cause it was run so easy ](*,) regardless, if they're cheap, decide after they're apart- you can always sell a rebuildable core- be careful with flywheels as the 360 & 401 are externally balanced & the 304 isn't- your 258 flywheel might even work with the 304!!

[eight]

I allready got the 360 with a flywheel.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/ryankopecki/jeep%20mods/360.jpg
And this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/ryankopecki/jeep%20mods/infectionparts.jpg

[Goose]

Hmm these pics confirm my suspicions..Everyone else uses a claw hammer for everything also! So a double ended screwdriver,vicegrips,Crescent wrench and a claw hammer the all purpose tool kit!

Sorry man my prozac must be wearing off the voices are coming back.

[Mudrat]

Clean block, what about the 401?

Buy the way, how did you get my patio table without me noticing? :?:

Mudrat

[eight]

401's going in the CJ5 the 360 came out of. It was from a 75 international dumptruck and had CJ exhaust manifolds. Its likely gonna need a rebuild.

And the table, I am very very sneaky.......

[tufcj]

CJ and Wagoneer manifolds WILL exchange, depending on year. I got rid of my 77 CJ manifolds, and bolted on a set of 72 Wagoneer manifolds W/O the smog rail fittings. Direct bolt on. I know they changed the left side manifold, but it wasn't until the 80s, as mentioned earlier.

Bob
tufcj

[Lifted79CJ7]

So eight, are you going to piece together a GM fuel injection on your 360? Can you give us some details on this - I am VERY interested!! Not only that, but I have a junk yard just a mile up the street that I can rape for parts.... :-|