Infected 360 swap

[eight]

Figured this should have its own thread.

Here's the plan.
Gonna put this 360
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/ryankopecki/jeep%20mods/360.jpg
and this junk
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/ryankopecki/jeep%20mods/infectionparts.jpg
plus some more parts in this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/ryankopecki/trips/fae59876.jpg

For the GM TBI fuel injection
You need:
Computer with number enging 7747 (has burnable chip)
Throttle body with IAC and TPS from a 4.3+. Buy an intake adapter from howell or make one.
Injectors for 305+ (we think 305s will flow enough)
Coolant temp sensor screws into intake.
MAP sensor hooks to throttle body with vacuum line.
Knock sensor screws into oil gallery hole in block.
Electronic spark controll module can mount anywhere.
Ignition controll module from in the distributer, can be mounted anywhere, and splice the wires into your distributer and coil. Must be grounded and have a heat sink.
Must have an electronic distributer, stock duraspark works. Must disable the mechanical advance. Tack weld the weights. Do not use the vacuum advance.
O2 senser.
Unhacked wiring harness. You'll need to prune it of all unnecessary wires (vss, emission controlls, alternator, auto transmission, etc).
Custom burned chip.
Electric fuel pump capable of 15 psi 35 gpm. I'll use a external pump for a 91 F150 with 351.
Stock feed line is 3/8" on the GM, or 5/16" on the ford. Stock jeep feed line is 5/16", I'm gonna use it as feed. Stock return line is 1/4", I'm gonna bust out my books and figure if it should work or not, if not I'll just run 5/16" return line, which is the stock size for the GM. 1/4" return line seems to be working fine.

If you can find 350 injectors and chip, you can skip the custom chip part if you like. It will throw a code cause of no vss, but still run fine.

Plug everything in, hook up the constant, switched, and crank power, ground all the grounds, and hope it works. Make sure your switched power wire has power when cranking. You also need to run a switched power wire to the + side of the coil.

[Goose]

Wow.. If the Gm TBI deal works out you have to post a list of stuff you used so some of the rest of us can try it out.. I would love to have FI on the J-10 but since MC wont trade one for my Armalite I'm out of luck for the edelbrock..Keep us posted! :lo1l:

[tufcj]

I bought the complete setup from Howell. They said in their directions that the factory 5/16 - 1/4 lines would work, but recommended the upgrade to 3/8 - 5/16. I did the upgrade, and ran the fuel lines up the firewall, since the TB feeds from the rear.

I've had the Howell EFI on my 360 CJ for over 5 years now, and it's been flawless with the exception of a bad O2 sensor. It runs smoother, starts easier, idles better, throttle response is better, isn't affected by bouncing, and runs at any angle, even upside down (don't ask how I know #-o ).

It's a great upgrade. Worth every cent (about $1250 to my door with everything except fuel line and air cleaner).

Bob
tufcj

[eight]

The Howell is basically the same thing as this GM system. They use many of the same parts. I've heard nothing but good about the Howell system. Does it have spark controll?

I had to buy a duraspark distributer since this motor came with a petronix. Well, I probably could have made the petronix work. The new distributer didn't come with a drive gear. Can I use the one off the petronix or a 6 cylinder duraspark?

[Lifted79CJ7]

So are you going to be using the stock intake? Just wondering cause I have an edelbrock performer and was wondering if the TB would bolt right up without an adapter. Man, I wanna go to the junk yard now!!
Also, MC sells the gears if you need one. He can sell you a matching set for your cam/distributor.

[tufcj]

Actually, Howell worked for GM for many years. He helped GM develop the TBI system. When he retired from GM, he started his EFI company. His system uses off the shelf GM parts except for the PROM that he custom burns for your application. That's what makes it nice. Parts are available at any parts store.

The GM TB uses 3 bolts, and won't bolt directly to anything but a GM TB manifold. I have an Edelbrock performer with the Howell TB adapter. I had Howell delete the spark control from mine, I just use a Mallory Unilite distributor that I've had in there for over 15 years.

You should be able to use the gear off your current distributor. Just be sure to get the end play right if you have to drill a hole in the dist shaft.

Bob.

[eight]

I'll use a stock intake off a 401. No got money buy good intake. Not sure how I'll adapt it. Either drill/tap/dremel the manifold or build an adapter out of a chunk o aluminum. I'll figure it out when my throttle body shows up.

[tufcj]

You'll probably need a chunk of aluminum. The 2 BBL GM throttle body is actually slightly wider than a square bore Holley 4BBL. I mounted the adapter plate, then massaged both the plate and manifold with a die grinder so there were no sharp edges or flats where they mated. Howell can also make their system mate to a Holley 4BBL TB if you ask for it. I think the 2BBL GM TBI flows about 570 CFM, my 360 ran fine with a 600 Holley, and I've had no problems with the 2BBL injector.

Bob
tufcj

[eight]

The 4.3-5.7 GM TB only flows 420ish cfm. Kinda small, but I guess the stock carb is 300-350 cfm so it'd be an upgrade from that. The 454 TB and most aftermarket ones flow 670 cfm. Someone on ebay sells bored 4.3-5.7 TBs that flow about 600 cfm.

[eight]

Well the engine's bolted in and most of the injection stuff is hooked up. Still got a lot of work to do, but it may run tomorrow.

A chunk of aluminum was used for the adapter, or actually I started with a 2 barrel holley carb spacer.

[Mudrat]

Whhhooooo HHooooo!!! Running!?!?!?! :?

Details and pics????

What was the complete shopping list?
What problem areas did you find?
What recommendations do you have for the next guy (or gal) that want's to do this?

What tranny/x-fer you putting behind it?

Mudrat

[eight]

No, not running yet, keep getting distracted. Had to be a cowboy for the weekend, and dove season opened back up.

I'll answer all those questions and more when its done.

I've got a dodge np435 and a d300 behind it, and 3/4 ton axles. You'd probably like my $50 np435 swap.....

[Mudrat]

No, not running yet, keep getting distracted. Had to be a cowboy for the weekend, and dove season opened back up.

I'll answer all those questions and more when its done.

I've got a dodge np435 and a d300 behind it, and 3/4 ton axles. You'd probably like my $50 np435 swap.....
Well crank up that tech article :lo1l:
- I'm about to start a similar project ...
Pull the 258 (put it in my daughters Yj), build and install a 360, find a tranny that mates to the 360 and D300 (probably do the TeraLow gears and clock it) and I already have Dana44's with 4.56 lockers under it all...

Mudrat

[eight]

It runs, and its fast, but hesitates. More power at half throttle than the 258s had, I haven't even put it to the floor yet. :!: :mrgreen:
Should have the custom chip soon, right now it's got 350 injectors and 305 computer.

[shimniok]

Planning something similar for my FSJ. Found a guy that builds kits out of thoroughly tested junkyard parts. Have had his kit laying around for awhile until I could stabilize other problems with the Jeep. He used a plate of alum for an adapter to my Edelbrock Performer manifold.

http://www.customefis.com/links.html

Last I read a GM knock sensor wouldn't work on the AMC. I wonder if anyone's tried to remedy that as it seems like it would be nice to have 'auto tuning' spark timing. Would alleviate some worry for me.

Hope to build a 401 with EFI and finally have more power than I know what to do with.

Last thought, if $$ is no object, there is a way to tune the GM TBI on-the-fly by buying some additional gear. Mentioned on the site above I think.

Michael

[eight]

The knock sensor screws right into an oil gallery hole in the side of the block. Remember the reason why its said to not work?

[Mudrat]

http://www.customefis.com/links.html

Michael
Man that's a lot of information to get my head around - to many other things going on I guess. I just need a simple list of parts that'll fit a 360 and if possible the best donors for'm. Since I spent so much time getting rid of the computer in the CJ, If I go to any FI system, I'll have to put one back #-o

Mudrat

[shimniok]

The gist of it was the sensor 'thought' the AMC was knocking when it wasn't. I dunno... they use a quartz crystal to sense vibes or some crap... maybe the AMC makes funny 'noises' and you have to find some way to tune that out or process the signal differently than SBC? If you find the do-it-yourself EFI list DIY-EFI or whatever (google it) maybe you can find more info about adapting a knock sensor... if you find out I'd love to know...

Some folks on CFSJA have been doing EFI for awhile... they've posted in the past what's needed. I guess I could go try to dig up a post or ask one of 'em. I think someone already posted parts on this thread... but LMK.

Another option some guys on the list are looking at is MegaSquirt. I'm hearing really good stuff about that one. But... I think the GM TBI is more field proven... (ie, lots of R&D budget went into it you know?)

Another thought, the tpiguy adds timing control while most of the guys I know don't bother. Typically they all leave off knock sensor & of course tranny hookups.

Some slick software out there for tuning GM TBI...

Michael

[eight]

For a parts list, check the first post in this thread.

And here's all you need to know about wireing (http://www.justinternationals.org/Binder-Bench/showthread.php?t=1291).

[Mudrat]

...and hope it works.
Me too :oops:


For a parts list, check the first post in this thread.
And here's all you need to know about wireing (http://www.justinternationals.org/Binder-Bench/showthread.php?t=1291).
The link to the harness wiring is (I guess) restricted to forum members? It said I needed a password to access it :roll:

Mudrat :-|

[Lifted79CJ7]

I will copy it and email it to ya Pat....

Anyone have a link to what all the sensors look like, what they do, and where they are usually located under a chevy hood?

Most importantly, how can you tell a 305 vs a 350????

[eight]

That link goes to the diy-efi ftp, which I think is down with the rest of the diy-efi sites. It worked last week, not now. If somebody has a copy of it, send it to me or better yet, just post it in this thread.

[eight]

Anyone have a link to what all the sensors look like, what they do, and where they are usually located under a chevy hood?

Most importantly, how can you tell a 305 vs a 350????

305 vs 350, I just look at the emissions sticker, says 5.0 or 5.7 liter. Chevy astro vans have 4.3s and are good donors for all parts except the injectors.

Sensors (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/ryankopecki/jeep%20mods/9b0e2e30.jpg)

[Lifted79CJ7]

You are the man, Eight!! I think tomorrow I am gonna hit up the local U Wrench It while it is snowing (before it turns to rain around noon) and see what all I can grab - or at the very least, price this stuff out. Mud - I'll keep you updated with what all I find. I guess the hardest part is gonna be yanking the wiring harness. So MC, you think you can machine us out some adapter plates real quick to bolt this stuff up to our intake manifolds???
:?
Jack (Super Stoked!!)

[eight]

Yes, pulling the harness is the hardest part. I just cut the grounds, and most other stuff just unplugs. You don't need the power supply from the driver side, just remove the bolt that holds that plug together and unplug it. Before you pull the harness, pull the computer and make sure its number ends in 7747, if not, the harness will not work. The computer is in the dash on the passenger side.

There's a guy on Ebay that sells all the sensors for something like $40.

It seems to be working just fine with the knock sensor.

I've edited the first post to include just about everything you need to know, ask if I left something out.