Rhoads lifters, anybody ever use 'em?

[tarior]

The subject line pretty much says it; has anyone used Rhoads lifters in their AMC? Did you like them? Were they worth the extra $?

[Holeshot]

I used them and thought they were great. You can use a bigger cam and the lifters will bleed down at low revs to allow a more stable idle. I don't know that they hold a patent on that technology. Other brands high performance hydraulic lifters may do the same thing.

[Henry Lavrenz]

How did they sound and what type of cam did you have, what type of engine, and how did you adjust them? Hankrod

[SwampRat]

I'm sure they have a patent for thei style of lifter. Other aftermarket companies make fast bleed down lifters, but they not as aggressive. They are usually advertised as "high-intensity" lifters that SUPPOSEDLY gain you like .5 to 2 in. at idle. Where I believe rhoad's claims are huge, something like 3 to 4 in. of vacuum.

[Henry Lavrenz]

Tarior, I have used the Rhoads in a BB 440 mopar back in 1980 at that time they had a small flat on the side of the lifter. I was running the DC .509 cam and a tunnel ram with dual Holley 650 DB carbs. The engine ldle went from 5 in. @ 1000 rpm to 9 in @ 900 rpm and the response and low end power was very good..... yes this can be done on the street with a tunnel ram and big camshaft. Lifter noise with the Rhoads is very load, much loader than a mech. cam set loose. I am now running the Crane high intensity with the Summit small cam in my 401, the engine vac went from 14 to 19 in. with the lifter change and they have NO noise. I think the Crane are the better choice, I have sence turbocharged the engine and its still running the same came and lifters and they are working fine after 15k Miles. Hankrod

[SwampRat]

Don't bite my head off, but a 5 inch increase in vacuum! I suspect something else was involved.

[tarior]

4-5 in Hg gain is quite substantial, those must really bleed off some lift! Hell, they're only about $25 more than regular lifters, I think I'll try them on my next motor.

[Henry Lavrenz]

Actually the vac went up to 20 in. but I had to bring down the timing because the increase in cylinder pressure created detonation. Hankrod

[tarior]

How's that turboed 401 working for you? I saw the pics here awhile back, looked like quite the project.

[Henry Lavrenz]

Its running great especially with the cold weather, the intercoolers really drop down the intake temps and let the ecm grank up the timing. We have a little snow now - I'm 60 mi. north of Milwaukee, and its very apparent that I cant drive it much, even in 4WD the power comes on to hard and spins the wheels to easy. I will be parking it till spring real soon. Hankrod

[tarior]

What are you using for your timing computer? I would like to get away from mechanical and vacuum advance entirely myself.

[Holeshot]

I agree about the valve noise - sounded kinda "dry" under the valve covers, but there was definately oil shooting out of the pushrods.

At the time, I was running a Crane "Fireball" (first series, discontinued) cam on a fresh 1971 8.5~1 360, I think it had .480" lift, not sure about the duration (guessing 284~290).

I didn't run with stock lifters so I don't know how much vacuum the Rhoads added.

I do know that the vac was 15" to 18", having a vac gauge on the dash for dialing in the power valve & secondary springs of the new Holley List 3310 750 vacuum secondary carb I was using at that time.

Actually idled smoother than I wanted, so I went to the local AMC dealer and ordered service pushrods .100" longer. Gave back a slight amount of cam, if any.

Idled pretty lumpy with cold oil & smoothed out when warmed up.

Of course, I could dial the "lump" back in with the idle mix screws, but that wasn't the smoothest idle setting that you'd normally shoot for.

[Henry Lavrenz]

Tarior, I'am useing the Holley Commander 950 Pro with the wideband o2 sensor. I will say - it is some work and it's almost addicting to keep tuning. I selected the Holley because of there tech support and they have plenty of base fuel & ignition maps to get started, the history recall and wideband are good tools for setting the system up. Holley also uses mostly GM sensors that are easy and cheap enough to replace. Hankrod

[tarior]

....and that totally does away with the mechanical and vacuum advances? How much does it cost? If I'm not mistaken, that is a TBI setup, how do you like it? I've been considering an Edelbrock TPI system (OK, if I had the $, I'd have it already), but maybe I might cut my teeth on a TBI system.

[Henry Lavrenz]

Tarior, The commander 950 ecm is universal, I did purchase it as a 900 cfm tbi system and it worked great. When I turbocharged my engine I had the Indy intake setup for mpfi and bought the injector wiring harness from a Holley vender, pluged it in and downloaded a base map for a supercharged smc and started from there. Yes this completely removes all mechanical controls, you may have some phasing issues with your dist. so look into this first, I went to a crank pickup and it worked out great. the cost is hard to say because I went from one system to another and had the cost of modifying my intake and the cost of the injectors and wiring, I think I have about 3K into it. Hankrod

[Goose]

The question I have heard asked and not answered is.. how do the rhoads lifter react to the AMC's low oil pressure at an idle.. 10 to 15 psi..?

I would like to use a set in an AMC I have used them in a 302 ford and several small block chevys..(nobody throw rocks at me please) but not in an AMC..

[Henry Lavrenz]

I do not know what would happen @ 10 or 15 psi oil pressure because I have never had a engine with that low of pressure. My bet would be they would bleed down to the max and make more noise than usual. Hankrod