swapping in a 360

[bls33]

Alright so i have a 360 out of my 77 chero, and im gonna swap it into my 85 CJ7, i was gonna swap the th400 in the chero to the CJ but dont want to spend the money to adapt it to the dana 300 in the CJ, so now im thinking of swapping in a 727 but the clocking is different on those if i'm not mistaken but has the same bolt pattern so how hard is it to re drill the t-case (because i dont want to spend the $$$ on a cloking plate) to mate with the 727? Are there any other good tranny's that will mate with the dana 300? and did any one run into any problems swapping in a 360, from what i've read its a pretty straightforward swap

Thanks

Josh

[Mudrat]

Hey Josh - doing the 360 swap now into an 87 CJ, the only problem I've had is the heat shield on the DR side above the clutch bellcrank hit the block (yeah - I've got a stick). The 258 bell housing fits the 360 no problem.

I'll be doing the 727 swap later this year, but dunno about the better Auto tranny that doesn't need an adaptor to the T-case ...

[bls33]

yea i figured i would end up still going with the 727, i jus started saving up to buy one, but then i got an offer i coudlnt refuse a locker for $125 with only 2k miles on it :lo1l:...I'll be on the lookout for updates on your swap and wish you good luck, im sure at the end of the day we will both be happy with the swap :t:

[Mudrat]

Well, this (http://www.bulltear.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5100) is where I'm at. Waiting on the rest of the parts to button it up ...

http://members.cox.net/mudrat-jeeper/AMC_360/wiring_roughed_in.jpg

[bls33]

That thing will be bad ass when its all done...An FSJ powered CJ will blow your pants off :shock:



o yea and what headers did you get for it?

[Mudrat]

That thing will be bad ass when its all done...An FSJ powered CJ will blow your pants off :shock:

o yea and what headers did you get for it?
Hope I can keep my pants on, and NOT soiled!!!!! :? A bored, balanced, blueprinted 360 should be fun :wink:

Got some Hedman 99220's in frame - I have to run a Cat in VA so I figure a 2 to 1 pipe through a single exhaust for right now ...

[Mudrat]

How does one put a cat on a fenderwell exhaust? I got the wrong ones (ordered in frame), but said what the hell and mounted them anyway, buttttt .... thought of the VA inspection AFTER I mounted the suckers ????

http://members.cox.net/mudrat-jeeper/AMC_360/DRVR_Headder.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mudrat-jeeper/AMC_360/PSNGR_headder-1.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mudrat-jeeper/AMC_360/PSNGR_Collector-2.jpg

[Lifted79CJ7]

Trust me, I had a set up fenderwells and since you plan on going off road, you will bash the crap out of them and rip your exhaust off. Pack them up and send them back. If you don't plan on taking it off road, then leave them on - they do always look cool and sound cooler. I'm sure Fuzz would agree!
Jack

PS - lookin slick! I'm jealous!

[bls33]

I'm starting the swap this week, hope to be done in a couple weeks, will i have any trouble with the wiring? the engine is comming out of a 77 cherokee

[dbesade]

Trust me, I had a set up fenderwells and since you plan on going off road, you will bash the crap out of them and rip your exhaust off.

PS - lookin slick! I'm jealous!

I got a pair of Fenderwell's on my CJ and I haven't really bashed them at all 111!!! I have heard what you say from others as well, I dunno I suppose it depends on what kinda wheelin you do..

Lookin Good mudrat , its gunna be a beast ;).

-Dave

[Mudrat]

I got a pair of Fenderwell's on my CJ and I haven't really bashed them at all 111!!! I have heard what you say from others as well, I dunno I suppose it depends on what kinda wheelin you do..

Lookin Good mudrat , its gunna be a beast ;).

-Dave
Thanks Dave, but...um...I've rolled 3 and went end-over in one. I've not been real sane when I get 'play'n hard. And if I'm not hard, I ain't play'n :shock: :? :wink:

Ummmm ... MC? May want to warn your lady friend when we get to the ONF in a couple weeks. I helped right Bobbed82 after he layed his over at the first Scramble :wink:

[8675309]

Send those things back, might even tell em to keep em and put some manifolds back on. I ended up getting rid of my in-frame hedman's and went back to manifolds.... Much easier to deal with.

[Mudrat]

Well I got the in frame headers on last night no problem. Instructions said take this and that off (starter, steering shaft ... ), but the only R&R I had to do was the clutch bell crank to wiggle them past the steering shaft, and it bolted right back on. They dump out with plenty of room before the skid so that's not going to be a problem like the Clifford set I had on the I-6.
But, I found I'm going to make a throttle bracket though :roll: The stock unit holds the cable too far away from the throttle (about 1") and that's too much to try and bend it. The nit-noid shit is getting to me - I'm not sure I'll be ready in a week to break in the motor before FL :(:

[Lifted79CJ7]

You have to pick up an edelbrock relocation bracket for the throttle cable - they are like 10 bucks or something. I never would have known about this if I hadn't read it in an issue of JP magazine!

[Lifted79CJ7]

Send those things back, might even tell em to keep em and put some manifolds back on. I ended up getting rid of my in-frame hedman's and went back to manifolds.... Much easier to deal with.

Hey Jenny, is that you? I got your number. Actually, I got your number off the wall.

[Mudrat]

You have to pick up an edelbrock relocation bracket for the throttle cable - they are like 10 bucks or something. I never would have known about this if I hadn't read it in an issue of JP magazine!
I made one tonight out of some 1/8" plate - I'm sure it will hold up :wink:

[bls33]

Hey, im starting the swap tomorrow so I need to order the headers within the next couple of days what would you reccommend? I need fenderwells due to auto tranny, i want nice thick flanges, dont want any leaking....Also i would like some that dont turn instantly to that rust color like ones i have used in the past

[Mudrat]

Hey, im starting the swap tomorrow so I need to order the headers within the next couple of days what would you reccommend? I need fenderwells due to auto tranny, i want nice thick flanges, dont want any leaking....Also i would like some that dont turn instantly to that rust color like ones i have used in the past
I just got a set of Hedmans from Summit (http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=headers&N=400143+115+4294908280&Ntk=KeywordSearch) for $140 & free shipping. 1/4" flanges. They have the coated ones too for 2wce the $$

The page isn't marked real well for in-frame or fender well. I ordered up a set from the page and they came in fenderwell so I had to swap them out with the inframe. VA requires me to run a Cat and doing that with fender exit headers would not look good 111!!!

Call them and speak to a human to get the right ones.

"Rust happens, I just deal with it" 111!!!

[bls33]

awesome I will prolly give em a call tomorrow, dont want any mix ups delaying my build #-o

[bls33]

hmmm how about summits headers, any one use them before? I'll give you the stat lines for both summits and hedmans

Summit Headers
Header Material: Steel
Header Finish: Painted
Header Style: Fenderwell
Primary Tube Diameter (in): 1 5/8 in.
Collector Diameter (in): 3.000 in.
Tuned: No
Primary Tube Gauge: 18-gauge
Collector Attachment: 3-bolt flange
Flange Style: Standard
Flange Thickness (in): 5/16 in.
Bolts/Studs Included: Yes
Gaskets Included: Yes
Reducers Included: Yes
Y-Pipe Included: No
Quantity: Sold as a pair.
$95.95

Hedman Headers
Header Material: Steel
Header Finish: Painted
Header Style: Fenderwell
Primary Tube Diameter (in): 1 3/4 in.
Collector Diameter (in): 3.000 in.
Tuned: No
Primary Tube Gauge: 16-gauge
Collector Attachment: Ball and socket flange
Flange Style: Standard
Flange Thickness (in): 1/4 in.
Bolts/Studs Included: Yes
Gaskets Included: Yes
Reducers Included: Yes
Y-Pipe Included: No
Quantity: Sold as a pair.
$135.88


Both seem pretty close, but it also says the hedmans can be delivered next day and the summit headers wouldnt be till the 20th, and im using a buddies garage so i dont want to take to much of his time..also i've used hedmans befor and have been very satisfied

Oh yea and mudrat, i've decided to deal with the rust, $389 or whatever the coated ones cost helped :?:

[Mudrat]

Meh
For the extra, I liked the ball and flange and the heavier metal 1/4 vs 3/16 flange and 16 over 18 ga for the bigger tubes.

Summits I'm sure would work.

And the only bolts inculded are the head bolts - not the flanges...

[tufcj]

Coated headers will pay for themselves over time. When I first got my CJ, one of the first mods was headers (fenderwell). The cheapies were $99 then. I went thru a set every couple of years because the location of the collector just behind the front tire caught every bit of dirt and water thrown up. The collectors would rot thru. The coated headers were $199 but I ran them for over 10 years (probably 4-5 sets of uncoated headers). I pulled them off because of emissions laws, and sold them to a buddy. He's still running them, they're almost 20 years old now. I also had problems with cheap headers stress cracking the tubes up near the heads. You get what you pay for.

Bob
tufcj

[bls33]

i take it the answer to this question is no, but i just thought I'd ask, will the frame to engine mounts from the fsj im taking the engine from work for the swap in the CJ, or do i have to get ones from a CJ that had a 304

[tufcj]

You need the CJ specific mounts. The FSJ mounts are different. The drivers side mount is the same from the frame rail to rubber mount on the I-6 and V-8. The passenger side is V-8 specific. The engine block to rubber mount brackets are also V-8 and CJ specific.

I kept breaking the drivers side mount, so I went to www.mountainoffroad.com , and got their Bomb Proof mounts. Definitely worth the money.

Bob
tufcj

[bls33]

so you need 2 brackets, Passenger side Frame Mount and Rubber mount...am i correct

[tufcj]

You will need 3 CJ specific brackets. Both sides engine block to rubber mount. Passenger side frame to rubber mount. Drivers side frame to rubber mount you can keep. I'm not sure if the rubber mounts are the same on the 6 and 8. They run $15-20 each at a parts store, if they're oily, they'll deteriorate, so why not replace them too.

Check this thread for pics of the CJ engine side mounts.
http://www.bulltear.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5139&start=0

Brand new sets of brackets here:
http://www.jeepdoc.com/
Search on motor mounts

The Bomb Proof ones I mentioned are $200.

Bob
tufcj

[bls33]

I have a habit of realizing obvious things after i purchase a part 111!!! , and this time I've realized that my nerf bars are prolly gonna cause some problems with the fenderwell headers i just orderd :(:, does it look like I may still be able to manuever around em?

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4426/jeeppiccook25ml.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4518/jeeppiccook30hq.jpg

BIG Pic (http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7749/jeeppiccook12xm.jpg)

[Mudrat]

Um.... NO! #-o Nerf and fenderwell not compatable.

But that's OK, ditch the Nerfs and put some rock sliders on there with a stand off. Then you have the step, a secure slider that won't hang up on anything (like the mall parking space bump stops :wink: ) and the header will work just fine!!!

I made my own out of 1/4" 3x5 angle iron, not as fancy with the lazer cutting and all ... but shrockworks (http://www.shrockworks.com/jeepbars.htm) has some cool ones that work!!! :idea:

[bls33]

My swap is nearing completion, basically gonna bolt it all up tomarrow and do all the wiring then i just have to run the fuel line around front, then bolt on some purple hornies then i am done, so i should finish up this week :!:

[Mudrat]

Good deal!!! :t:

I think I finished my wiring :-| and started welding up the exhaust this weekend, among other "Daddy Duty" chores (fixing a sink, yard work - pulling out a couple stubborn bushes with the Dodge :? , covering a hole in the YJ's 'barn') before the heavens opened up yesterday with 2" of water.

[CJim7]

Sounds like it's comeing along. i've had a merry-go-round of a ride with my 401 swap. almost everything needed replaced, cant believe it ran as good as it did after the rebuild, but between swapping out the distributor, replaceing the ps pump and fabbing a new bracket, makeing a newer style alternator work with my 7/16 bolt pattern, rebuilding my York compressor, extracting a few broken bolts (except for one that had to be drilled and tapped), locateing a carb, motor mounts, brackets, pulleys, waiting on parts, and looking for lost tools.....its comeing along. Now to deal with my cracked exh manifold problem and i'll be able to route fuel lines and hook up the electrical. Bright side is the Edelbrock intake looks nice on top of that pig. :?

Sorry to semi-hijack, glad your project is rolling along :t:

[Mudrat]

Well here's a new question ...

headers, but single exhaust (gotta have a Cat in this state) with space limited between the t-case and rear end, what's a proven method of routing the exhaust tot he DRVR side and into a single cat/muffler?

I'm thinking of a 90 after the T-case, over the top of the yoke and back into the main line? Want to be able to dropt the tranny/t-case without having to drop the exhaust - especially since it'll be welded...

Thoughts??

[tufcj]

It's really tough with headers. You don't want the pipe too close to the floorboard, or the heat transfer will be terrible. Take it to a shop that does street rods, they can generally be really creative, but you will pay for it.

I went with stock exhaust manifolds (smog laws), I even had to have the air tubes. The shop turned the passenger side forward (about a 135* bend), then ran it under the front of the oil pan, then turned it back and connected it into the driver side. Pipes are 2.25" until they meet, then go into 3". 3" high flow cat mounted over the skid plate, 3" welded Magnaflow muffler. The whole exhaust system is above the lower edge of the fram rail, except the very end, which dumps at the driver rear corner. Mine cost about $700 to build (including cat and muffler), but I've never caught it on anything, even in the most extreme rock crawling.

I had headers in mine previously, and I don't see any noticable loss of power (maybe even a slight gain in torque) in the RPM range I run in for crawling (idle-3500 RPM). The stock manifolds seal better, and won't ever burn thru or rust out. With the cam I have, it runs out of power over 4500 anyway. How often does it get revved that high? Very seldom.

Bob
tufcj

[Mudrat]

I went with stock exhaust manifolds (smog laws), I even had to have the air tubes. The shop turned the passenger side forward (about a 135* bend), then ran it under the front of the oil pan, then turned it back and connected it into the driver side. Pipes are 2.25" until they meet, then go into 3". 3" high flow cat mounted over the skid plate, 3" welded Magnaflow muffler. The whole exhaust system is above the lower edge of the fram rail, except the very end, which dumps at the driver rear corner.
Bob
tufcj
I think you mentioned something out this before - interesting ... around in front of the pan???

Got pics?

Not sure I can do anything like that. The other option I was looking at was taking off the PASS header and going left w/ a 90* - between the bell and trans - then a 45* to merg in to the DRVR side just past the proportioning valve and into the cat/muffler and back. :roll:

[pyagid]

I will try to get some pictures this weekend, My dads CJ he was able to find a small Cat the fit up right by the transmission crossmember. His CJ has since became a "1980" Jeep so it doesnt need to go through inspection or emmisions anymore.

I will get pictures of his exhaust with the headers adn Cats this weekend though

-Paul

[bls33]

theres a guy who wants the chero i used for parts, i'm fine with giving it to him but is there anything i should grab off that i may need towards the 360 swap?

[rollbar]

?
I got a set of J-10 exhaust manifolds off a 78' 360 for my 77' 360 (different engine) I have in my CJ8 I'm trying to finish, my question is will the J-10 stock exhaust manifolds work in the CJ or will they hit the tub.

Thanks,
RollBar

[tufcj]

Just about all of the AMC V-8 exhaust manifolds (car, truck, SUV) are the same from 1971 until the late 80s. The only ones that were different were the Hornet, Gremlin, and such that had clearance issues. What you have should fit fine.

Bob
tufcj

[rollbar]

As alway's, thanks Bob :t: . I wasa told different so I had to check w/the real AMCers.

RollBar

[KJMac]

Well here's a new question ...

headers, but single exhaust (gotta have a Cat in this state) with space limited between the t-case and rear end, what's a proven method of routing the exhaust tot he DRVR side and into a single cat/muffler?

I'm thinking of a 90 after the T-case, over the top of the yoke and back into the main line? Want to be able to dropt the tranny/t-case without having to drop the exhaust - especially since it'll be welded...

Thoughts??
You can't run dual cats? I know it is more money but I would consider the Dual cats so youo can run dual exhaust.

[Mudrat]

You can't run dual cats? I know it is more money but I would consider the Dual cats so youo can run dual exhaust.
Yup, still considering that, dual cats, duel muflers and duel heat. Still haven't decided yet. I'll worry about it when I get home sometime after the 24th.

'Rat
Posted from the UK.