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View Full Version : CLOYES ( 9 ) Keyway Timing Chain Sets - Request


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AMX69PHATTY
10-12-2006, 11:33 AM
I've contacted CLOYES in Arkansas by phone (479) 963-2105, ext. 231
and email from thier web page feedback section, and requested that they
make a AMC/Jeep ( 9 ) Keyway Timng Chain Set.
They already offer them for Chevy and Ford.
CLOYES Units would be MADE IN THE USA.
Would y'all buy'em if Cloyes offered'em ????
Would BullTear list them in there E-Store ????
Go to the CLOYES web page under contacts and send'em an email y'all.

http://www.cloyes.com/html/contactform.html

here' what I sent'em:

as sent to Cloyes via thier webpage feedback email page October 12th, 2006

Hello, wish to request that you produce a ( 9 ) Keyway true Roller Timing Chain Set for AMC/Jeep V8 engines like you do for Chevy and Ford. Have spoken with Wayne in Tech Support about this. Keyway Broach Tooling costs for the Crank Sprocket bore could pay dividends since it is the same as that of Pontiac engines, and you could then offer ( 9 ) keyway timng sets for Pontiac also as well as AMC/Jeep. A lot of people still build AMC engines for thier Jeeps. Another manufacturer, RollMaster, offers a ( 9 ) Keyway timing set for AMC/Jeeps, but it is not a "Made in the USA" company, it is in Austailia and uses German Chains. But the RollMaster set incorporates a Torrington Bearing on the back side of the Cam Sprocket, and this has a negative impact on the AMC/Jeep distributor gear oiling circuit. The Cloyes sets could avoid this problem by leaving out the non-stock, un-neccasary, cost prohibitive, Torrington Bearing. I, as well as many other AMC/Jeep owners I'm sure, would prefer to buy AMERICAN since our vehichles are AMERICAN MOTORS. I already have a new Cloyes #9-3118 Timing Set but wish to advance my cam more than 4 degrees. If Rollmaster can offer AMC/Jeep sets, why can't Cloyes ??? I would prefer to buy a Cloyes Set. A few of the companies that sell Restoration and Engine Parts for AMC/Jeeps are: www.BullTear.com, www.americanpartsdepot.com, www.kennedyamerican.com, www.classicone.com

I'm not sure if they would pull together to make a group order or not, but I'm sure they would list a (9) Keyway Timing set for sale if it was available. On the BullTear Bulliten Board many people are talikng up the RollMaster units. I'd like to be able to talk up Cloyes, an AMERICAN Company to the AMC/Jeep community. Another large internet forum for AMC's is www.amcforums.com so there appears to be an interest there.
Please give it your most serious consideration to produce a ( 9 ) Keyway Timing Set for AMC/Jeep V8's, and at the same time you could also offer it for Pontiacs, which would expand your product applicaton range even further.

Since Cam selection for AMC/Jeep is limited, there is a need for the ( 9 ) Keyway Timing Sets. Jeep guys want low end torque, and AMC HotRodders want top end horspower, and an American Made Cloyes ( 9 ) Keyway Timing set would accomodate both.

I really don't want to buy a RollMaster product, or have to find a machine shop to add keyways to my existing NEW Cloyes #9-3118 Timing Set crank sprocket.

If possible please acknowledge reciept of this correspondence, hopefully with a "go" decision by emailing me at ckthomas@fuse.net.

Thank You and please help me to keep my AMERICAN MOTORS vehichle as AMERICAN as I possibly can. I have a 1969 AMC AMX that I've owned since 1985 and it makes me angry every time when I use a screw or bolt or anything to put on that car that was made anywhere other than the UNITED STATES of AMERICA.

:t: ( yes, I'm a dreamer ) :mrgreen:

jeepsr4ever
10-12-2006, 03:31 PM
:-| I thought Cloyes bought Dynagear and the new sets are imported...I could be wrong

82Waggy
10-12-2006, 04:07 PM
Rollmaster also offers a NON-torington bearing equipped set with nine keyways.

Now this begs the question, what are you going to do with nine keyways?

AMX69PHATTY
10-12-2006, 09:50 PM
Is it the RollMaster BLUE Label package that has (9) keyways in the Crank Sprocket ?

May I ask, do you have a RollMaster Part Number and where to buy ?

I wish to advance my Cam more than 4 Crank Degrees, which is all the Cloyes set allows.
Understanding is the (9) Keyways allow advancing the Cam more than 4 Crank Degrees.

It's a street car I run at the 1/4 mile, and 4.10 gears would be optimum
for the track but unpractical for the street and interstate driving.
I wish to compensate for only having 3.73 gears by advancing the cam.
Not spinning the motor beyond 6500, and wish to shift power band down in rpm.
As in other threads, cam advance increases effective compression, & I'm after that too.
I'd just like to see how this motor would run with more cam advance.

I checked out the RollMaster web page, thought the Blue Label sets lacked the (9) Keyways.

Thanks for the help. :t:

Blown7
10-13-2006, 02:32 AM
I have the Rollmaster installed but can't remember how many keyways, but there are at least 6. I bought it from the guy down in FL. Performance AMerican Style.
Jeff

82Waggy
10-13-2006, 04:24 AM
Try fastengineparts.com

though now that I opened my big mouth, I went back to find the part number for you and do not see it listed anymore. Maybe I was mistaken.

PAS is in Houston (Pasadena), Texas.

Honestly not trying to be a smartass, but if you need to advance your cam that much, maybe you should try a different grind. What cam are you trying to use and what are you trying to accomplish by advancing it that much?

AMX69PHATTY
10-13-2006, 11:40 AM
I've got a shortblock on the engine stand and have been trying to get motivated
to get it together since loosing my job in July.
It's been out of the car three years this Xmas cause the job I had was sappy all my time/energy.
The motor ran pretty good the way it was, about 425 HP at the crank.
I over-revved it and spun a rod bearing, it had been together +10 years.
As good as it ran, it didn't have enough compression for the cam.
Wish to put it back together like it was with a little more compression
and without spending big bucks, like for forged pistons, it has new casts.
Rotating assembly has been balanced, 304/360 crank offset ground .010, 3.46 Stroke.
This time static compression ought to be between 9.5 and 10:1
The Cam, I'm re-using the same one with new Hydraulic anti-pumpup lifters.
Don't laugh to hard, it's a stock cam reground by Chet Herbert.
I don't have a spec sheet for it, used a degree wheel to get specs.
Inatke - .512/280@.005 Exhaust - .529/295@.005
Wish to advance the cam for a couple reasons, one is to increase effective compression,
also to close the exhaust valve sooner to increase Piston to valve clearance.
Also, I called and spoke with Chet Herbert who said since it was a stock cam regrind
it is intended to be installed advance, when at TDC on the Exhaust stroke
he said the Intake should be opened .040 to .060 more than the Exhaust.
When using the Cloyes and the 4 degree advance keyway, I only have .030-.035 difference.
Wish to advance the Cam enough to achieve the .040-.060 difference
between the Intake and Exhaust Valve opening at TDC on the exhaust stoke.
Already have the parts, and have no job, so trying to get it together as much as I can with what I have,
but would be willing to get another timing set for cam advance.
I'm no proffesional engine builder, a hobbyist I guess.
The motor ran pretty good, and would just like to see how it runs with just a couple tweaks
from how it was before, little more compression and some cam advance.
Already have a motor to do next and do more "right", a '73 401.
The motor I'm building now is the original block from the car, a '69 343 4V.
But it has the 304/360 +.020 3.46 crank in it, and it's .030 over, 367 C.I.
Just feel like this motor never realized it's full potential, but with these tweaks maybe it will.
I value everyones opinion, whatever it may be, always more to learn.

82Waggy
10-13-2006, 04:49 PM
Wow.

Not sure you will ever get what you are after by advancing the cam that much as you can't change the overlap - which is huge in that cam, and way more than you need for a 360.

Though closing the intake valve earlier will help build dynamic compression, you will also be opening it way early in the exhaust stroke- thereby really backfeeding and diluting the induction charge. Opening the exhaust valve early in the power stroke will bleed off some of the power as well, but this may not be as critical as the other problems.

I'd rather see you put the $120 towards a different cam and use the timing set you have.

If that is not an option, maybe you should consider using some offset keyways with your current timing set to get about 6deg advance and see if it reacts the way you want it to before spending any more money.

AMX69PHATTY
10-14-2006, 06:33 AM
Looked into the Offset Keys.
Appears that AMC Crank Keys are the same as SB Chevy long style.
But the rotating assy has already been balanced an it'll move the dampener & timing mark.
AMC Cam keys are 5/32" and for SBC they appear to be 3/16" wide, same as crank.
Considered hand filing a SBC offset cam key to fit AMC cam.
If done on both outside edges, i think it will slightly reduce the offset.
May I ask, were you thinking in the cam or in the crank ?
Is there a source for 5/32" offset cam keys ?

More cam specs, strait up, approximate, measured with solid lifter :

Intake .512 lift - 230@.050 - 280@.005
IN opens .005 @ 31* BTDC - .050 @ 2* BTDC
IN closes .005 @ 73* ABDC - .050 @ 45* ABDC
IN CL - 112* ATDC

Exhaust .529 lift - 240@.050 - 295@.005
EX opens .005 @ 77* BBDC - .050 @ 53* BBDC
EX closes .005 @ 39* ATDC - .050 @ 13* ATDC
EX CL - 112* BTDC

Overlap - 71* @ .005 - 15* @ .050

Thanks

82Waggy
10-14-2006, 06:41 AM
Use two keys on the crank, an offset one for the timing gear and a straight one for the damper. Cut a full length one if you have to.

You would not want to rotate the damper.

AMX69PHATTY
10-14-2006, 07:32 AM
How does one accommodate the keyed Oil Slinger sandwiched between the Sprocket and Dampener ?
One key or the other needs to "crossover" between the sprocket and dampener doesn't it ?
Maybe use a die grinder and widen the keyway in one or the other
just at the end to allow one of the two keys to "crossover" and hold the Slinger ?

82Waggy
10-14-2006, 10:55 AM
I'd leave the damper key just long enough to capture the slinger. Cut the offset key flush with the face of the timing sprocket.

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