drivetrain swap (long with many questions)

[dan58]

The motor and tranny swap are about to begin. I already have the D300 out and cleaned up, ready for a 4:1.

Next up is to yank the TF999. I plan to take it and my new (from a running, driving 258-powered 1984 CJ) TF999 to a transmission shop to have the manual valve body pulled and steam cleaned, then reinstalled into my new TF999. I avoid water like the plague, but I might do the vent relocation trick as well. I'm pulling the TF999 next weekend. I will get the tq converter while I'm under there. Thoughts?

The current motor is a 1972 AMC360 with an Edelbrock intake, cam, and old skewl Edelbrock valve covers that were sandblasted and clearcoated (for maximum bling!). It runs on the www.gotpropane.com kit. I'm replacing it because it burns oil (leaky valves) and the exhaust manifolds are toast (booger welded by a previous owner). I'm swapping the intake, propane, and valve covers over to the new motor.

The replacement motor is a 1986 from a Waggy. It has all the miserable emissions junk all over it. I bought it from a trustyworth friend, and he tells me it ran like a top. The body rusted away, and the axles and engine were pulled.

Now for the questions:

1. I'm thinking of running the infamous Taurus electric fan and using this guide to perform it:

http://www.rebelrockrunners.org/taurus_install.htm

I plan to run it on high. This is strictly a rockcrawler, and it needs all the cooling help it can get. Is this a good swap? From what I can tell, the fan is not an integral part on the front pulley. I think it can be left off with no issues. Correct? Side note: it always ran hot, and I have no fan shroud. I think it would be easier to run the Taurus fan that to build a shroud.

2. The PO of the Jeep ran the 4.2L I-6 radiator with NO provisions for an auto tranny. He had a micro size cooler on it, which probably led to the tranny's demise. Would the radiator from the CJ be a swap that's worthwhile? I hear that it's imperative to get the temp of the tranny fluid up, but not TOO hot. I'm going to run an external cooler as well. What would be an appropriate size? I'm thinking an 18,000GVWR.

3. Should I do anything to the motor prior to dropping it in? This is a budget, so anything not required isn't happening. Timing cover? Oil pump?

4. What's a good way to clean up the motor for some paint? Regular old degreaser? Without angering the AMC gods, I want to paint it red.

5. I'm considering leaving the A/C pump on it and using it for OBA. Is it on its own bracket with its own belt? How would I go about engaging it?

6. If I can scrape together additional cash, what are the serious bang for your buck things or real must haves?

Thanks all.

Gratuitous poser shot:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/IMG_0450.jpg

[tufcj]

Sounds like a good plan.

1. I have a Taurus fan sitting in the shed, I've heard it's a good swap. Especially good if you can turn it off during water crossings. I'd keep it 2 speed just to reduce the load on the alternator when it isn't needed. Repro factory shrouds are available from several vendors for under $100.

2. A good tranny cooler is a must. Fluid life drops pretty quickly over 200 degrees. You say it runs hot, you're not doing the fluid any favors in the hot radiator. An aux cooler should be fine, just don't make it too big, and have it block airflow thru the radiator.

3. Check the oil pump housing for scoring. A set of the Bulltear HRC gears couldn't hurt. Check the condition of the distributor and cam gears.

4. Super Clean and a pressure washer. Clean the thick stuff with a putty knife first, then use a stiff scrub brush. Once over with brake cleaner to remove any oil residue before painting. The T/A Javelin engines were red, my CJ engine is red. I tell people it's from a T/A Jav.

5. The A/C is on it's own bracket, but A/C vehicles use a different alternator bracket from the non-A/c vehicles. I have OBA on mine, I use a switch on the dash to energize the clutch. It's wired thru a pressure switch so it shuts off automatically at 125 PSI. Mine also energizes a solenoid that bumps the throttle to 2000 RPM so I can run air tools.

6. Lockers, hi lift jack, winch and winch kit, CB radio, first aid kit, tow straps, etc.

Bob
tufcj

[dan58]

Thanks tufcj.

1. I might be able to use the two speed. I'm not electrical guru, so I may just stick with the KISS priciple. I do hear those Taurus fans tax the heck out of the alternator.

2. What size cooler do you recommend?

5. Do you have pics, specs, or a diagram of that? Sounds PERFECT.

6. I have all that. I'm thinking things directly related to the swap. :wink:

Again, thanks!

[tufcj]

2. What size cooler do you recommend?

I'm not a big fan of automatics off-road (love my T-18 ). My Duramax diesel has a cooler that's about 5"x11"x1", it keeps the Allison 175 degrees or below even with a 12K trailer behind it in the mountains.

5. Do you have pics, specs, or a diagram of that? Sounds PERFECT.

My CJ (1977) could have had A/C as a factory option, so the wiring was already in the harness. I put in a 6 port aux fuse block for the EFI. It's a low amp draw for the clutch, so I just ran a wire from the fuse block to a switch, wire from switch spliced into the factory A/C wire under the dash. Under the hood, I bought a compressor pressure switch (on at 90, off at 125, about $15). I rethreaded the recharge fitting on the compressor to 1/8" NPT, put a "T" there for a pressure gauge and the switch. Factory A/C wire hooks to the switch. The other side of the switch attaches to the wire from the clutch. A second wire from the same post as the factory A/C wire (so its live when the switch is on) goes to the throttle solenoid. I can snap a pic and post it.

6. I have all that. I'm thinking things directly related to the swap. :wink:

Normal tune up parts, plugs, wires, cap, rotor. Check the wear on the timing chain, hoses, belts. Might as well start fresh, right?


Again, thanks!

[ironman_gq]

the taurus fan is very easy to wire just use a couple of 75-80 amp relays (one for each speed) and wire them like you would any other realay just be sure to use the right wire. I got my relays from www.waytekwire.com

[dan58]

How difficult is it to swap out the oil pump gears and a timing chain? It would be done while on an engine stand prior to reinstall.

[tufcj]

Oil pump gears come out by removing the oil filter base. Timing gears/chain take removing the timing cover and water pump.

Both very easy with the engine on a stand.

Bob
tufcj

[dan58]

I think I have about everything at this point. I need another gallon of coolant, oil, my front diff cover, front DS, and wiring. One night this week, I hope to get over to Don's to knock out the rest of the LoMax 4:1 in my D300.

I originally planned to swap motors, but I found out that this motor has a fresh bottom end, timing chain, and Edelbrock performer cam. I plan to hang onto the other 360 until this one is squared away. It will likely turn into a long term project (thinking 10:1 compression).

So, the teardown. Filthy is an understatement.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/Pile%20Rebuild%202008/IMG_0532.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/Pile%20Rebuild%202008/IMG_0535.jpg

I got the heads back today. Rhodes Machine shop had to do some additional machining to use positive-style valve seals. They also machined them and put in new freeze plugs too.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/Pile%20Rebuild%202008/IMG_0536.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/Pile%20Rebuild%202008/IMG_0538.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/Pile%20Rebuild%202008/IMG_0542.jpg

I also got a whole slew of new parts. Thank God the tax return was a double what I had anticipated. :oops: I was within hours of parting the bitch out, but the Coveboys talked me out of it.

Headers from a local feller.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/Pile%20Rebuild%202008/IMG_0544.jpg

New TQ Converter (some place in Pittsburgh) This is a higher stall, NON lockup TC for a TF999 (which is a lockup coverter). It's a custom unit which should make the tranny live a LOT longer behind the V8. I took the old one to a shop for a quick teardown, and the first gear bands were completely burnt.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/Pile%20Rebuild%202008/IMG_0546.jpg

I had to get a new 3-core radiator from Radiator Barn. My old one fell apart. :lol:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/Pile%20Rebuild%202008/IMG_0548.jpg

And I used the new parts cleaner to get all the grime off the intake and valve covers. You couldn't even see the aluminum before I started cleaning.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/Pile%20Rebuild%202008/IMG_0547.jpg

Other dodads:
LoMax 4:1 in the D300, taurus fan, new transmission, a straightened front DS, etc. And HOLY MAN are new 60amp relays expensive. :evil:

More pics of the heads in here:

http://s203.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/dan58jeeptj/Pile%20Rebuild%202008/


So, does anyone have a clue as to how much power this thing should be putting out now that it will breath correctly?

73 vintage 360
Edelbrock performer cam and intake, with short headers (on propane)

[The PIG Smith]

1. I have a Taurus fan sitting in the shed, I've heard it's a good swap. Especially good if you can turn it off during water crossings. I'd keep it 2 speed just to reduce the load on the alternator when it isn't needed. Repro factory shrouds are available from several vendors for under $100.

Tell us more about these aftermarket shrouds.
I wish someone would build an aftermarket Taurus Fan Shroud to fit my FSJ and use the Taurus fan assembly.

[tufcj]

The aftermarket shroud is just a copy of the OE shroud for the mechanical fan. I actually run an early 1970s vintage AMC 7 blade flex fan on my CJ with an aluminum radiator and factory shroud. It cools just fine.

Here's a link to what I an talking about.

http://www.4wd.com/productdetails.aspx?jeep-sid=50&plID=516&partID=8331

Bob
tufcj

[76-cj7]

After thinking about the shroud issue....out of the past 8 CJ's ive had, not a single one has had a fan shroud...and out of all my buddies jeeps its the same way..........did jeep just put them on as a option? or maybe all the ones ive seen were just broke or never put back on? :-|

[tufcj]

Most broke and weren't replaced. The factory shroud tended to crack, made of a fiberglass sort of material. My original broke when I threw a PS belt and it wrapped in the fan. :shock: They were kind of a PITA to install/remove, since they use the same 4 bolts that hold the radiator in place.

My Jeep overheats quickly without it, even with the Be-Cool aluminum radiator.

Bob
tufcj

[ironman_gq]

yep they sure did break easy. they tend to get a little brittle and break if you look at em wrong. I would just use the taurus fan as is with the shroud that it is built into. the taurus shroud covers about 2/3's of the radiator and if you mount it right you can use the two bolts on the passenger side of the radiator to mount that side of the fan the other side just use those through core mounts for a tranny cooler. cant get too much easier.

[dan58]

yep they sure did break easy. they tend to get a little brittle and break if you look at em wrong. I would just use the taurus fan as is with the shroud that it is built into. the taurus shroud covers about 2/3's of the radiator and if you mount it right you can use the two bolts on the passenger side of the radiator to mount that side of the fan the other side just use those through core mounts for a tranny cooler. cant get too much easier.

Great idea. I'm installing mine this weekend.

[WheelingPiazza]

I run the tarus fan on my CJ, Basically my setup is this,

360, 2 row 1 1/4 aluminum cross flow radiator, Taraus fan(with the shroud that comes with the fan), and a flow kool high volume water pump. i

You do not want to run the fan on high all the time, you will need to upgrade your electrical system if you do that, especially if your crawling alot. Low is sufficient up to 100 degrees and idle to 2k, any thing over that it will get to 210 but not move(at least on mine) on low, I usually use high when I need it to cool fast or when I am in the desert or hwy(I don't see much highway anymore0 bombing along at a good clip.


You need one 75/80 amp relay for high and one 30 amp relay for low. I use two switches, one for instant on, off and one for low, off, high plus a sensor backup for instant on in case I forget to turn it on. I also run it through a 200amp manual reset breaker, this way I know its off if i am working in the area and dont want any surprise fan turn on.

its a close fit for a stock located motor/water pump pulley and the fan in a cj5

Heres a picture of how my relay setup looks

http://wheelingpiazzas.com/pictures/74pictures/fan/resizeDCP01072.JPG

[mr.vic]

great tips from everyone (soory to hijack thread) but WheelingPiazza do you have more info on the solenoid, switches and sensors you used?

the KISS is a good write up but would be good to see a more advanced one like yours.