AMC EFI Recommendations

[74amx]

Does anyone have any experience, preferences, likes and/or dislikes with any of these AMC EFI systems?

Affordable Fuel Injection:
http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/index.php?id=22&title=AMC%2FJeep+Throttle+Body+Fuel+Injection

Edelbrock Fuel Injection:
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/pf_amc.shtml

F.A.S.T. EZ EFI:
http://www.fuelairspark.com/WhatsNew/Files/fastez-efiselftuningfuelinjectionsystemwith4150throttlebo dy.pdf

Howell Fuel Injection:
http://www.howellefi.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=16219&cat=252&page=1

Mass-Flo Fuel Injection:
http://www.mass-floefi.com/mass-flo.html

Professional Products EFI System:
http://www.professional-products.com/efiSystems.html

Retrotek EFI:
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/bossefi/bossefi-system/bossefi-single-quad.html

Here's the vehicle I have:
1974 AMX, loaded
Non-emissions 360 w/Ram Air Systems Cold Air & Trendsetters
727 Torque Command
Stock Gearing (either 3.15 or 3.54, not sure)

Additional Mods I Will Be Making:
Sig Erson TQ20 cam
Aftermarket aluminum intake manifold (included with Edelbrock)
Aftermarket distributor (included with Edelbrock). I already have a Proform HEI conversion distributor (brand new, never installed)
Eventually, a stroker crank with 9.5:1 pistons, mild porting/polishing to heads w/valve job, balance & blueprint to AMC specs and a mechanical 700R4.

Here's How The Car Will Be used:
Fun
Long trips to high altitude areas
City/highway driving
No serious racing

Goals:
Reliable starts
Better mileage
Better throttle response (regardless of altitude)
More Power
Good after purchase tech support
Access to replacement parts
Minimization of headaches

I have a Windows XP laptop and a chassis dyno tuner nearby (unless the recommended system does not need tuning or can be done with an included stand alone computer).

[Sandals]

The guys over at binder bulletin really like the AFI stuff. i've heard good things about the howell set-up's.

I just finished my own with parts from a 1991 suburban, wasn't too hard, i just need to find out why i'm running too rich and i'll be happy.

[tufcj]

I have Howell EFI on my CJ with a 360. Ran about $1250 delivered, came with everything except air filter and fuel lines. You need to add a return line if you don't have one, and they suggest 3/8" feed and 5/16" return.

I installed it in one day, including new lines. Instructions were good, it fired first try. Idle is smoother, throttle response is crisper, 1 picked up about 1 MPG (carb was well tuned), and for off-roading, it even runs upside down (don't ask #-o ). Since it is closed loop, it self adjusts for temp, humidity, and altitude.

I love it off-road, can't comment from a hi-po standpoint.

Bob
tufcj

[74amx]

The Howell and AFI systems are TBI. Many in the know say that MPI is better, why (please be specific)?

The Howell system looks pretty good because it's reasonably priced. Plus, it includes what appear to be readily available GM parts with ALDL diagnostic capability (which should make servicing easier). And, I can use my stock or conversion HEI distributor!

Can anyone tell me if the Edelbrock system has tangible benefits over the Howell system (mileage, performance up 350 to 400HP, throttle response, serviceability, ease of installation, tech support after the sale, etc.)?

The Edelbrock system looks great but is expensive. I read their manual and I'll need mechanical assistance to complete it. I'm not sure if their computer system includes diagnostic capability (other than the built-in reach/lean indicator) and I've heard that you can use ONLY the Mallory distributor with their setup. If that unit should fail, it "could" strand me and the likelihood of finding spare parts in the field would be few and far between. Anyone care to comment on these points?

[jeep_man_401]

Many in the know say that MPI is better, why (please be specific)?

I would think it would be for the same reasons as it is the preferred on everyday cars and trucks.

There is a injector for each intake port, (MPI) rather than on central injector (TBI).

For MPI systems:
A more balanced fuel mixture results because the fuel charge is shot at the back of each intake valve. On more complex systems the computer should be able to control the A/F mixture of individual or a bank of cylinders via a O2 sensor.
You don't get cylinders firing next in to each other starving the other for fuel.
A more radical intake design can be made (for lower hood lines) because the intake is "dry" and you don't have fuel sticking to the walls on intake runner turns or cold weather.

For TBI:
Less wires, less parts, cheaper to make, still outperforms a carb on cold drivability, starting, fuel mileage and engine wear(less fuel wash on cylinder walls over the life on a engine)

There are at least 2 types of systems of each also. A "speed density" and "mass air flow" with each having "closed loop" or "open loop" modes.

"speed density" basically uses a set of tables with the amount of air a engine will use at a given RPM.

A "mass air flow" system should use a airflow sensor to read the actual amount of air the engine is using at a given RPM.

In "Closed loop" mode a O2 sensor in the exhaust is used to adjust the amount of fuel to come up with a set A/F ratio. Also used is the engine load, RPM, crank position, throttle angle and sometime the air charge temp and amount of airflow into the engine.

In "open loop" mode a set of values programed into a chip is used to adjust the A/F mixture. Reads are taken of the engines RPM, temp, load(intake vacuum), throttle angle and sometimes the intake air temp itself. The O2 sensor is not used.(Most closed loop systems start this way until the O2 sensor is up to temp)

MPI also comes in 2 flavors "sequential" and "banked, or all at once" injection.
Sequential uses a 'crank position' sensor to fire each individual injector just before the valve opens or as the valve opens.

A banked system uses the same sensor or a distributor signal to fire the injectors all at once on every crank revolution.

A best of the best would be a "sequential" MPI, Mass airflow system that runs in a closed loop mode. It should have all the sensors posible:MAP(manifold air pressure), engine temp, air temp, crank position, O2 sensor, TPS (throttle postion sensor) mass air flow sensor, and engine RPM sensor.

I believe that the Edelbrock system is a speed density, non-sequential system based on talking to a tech once. Can't have cam lobes with alot of overlap because it throws the computer off the tables they program in it. Also can't run E-85 :(:

Ok time for another beer :razz:

[slagburn]

I run Holley Commander 950 efi on my 401. It's the 900 cfm throttle body system and the supplied 4 85 lb/hr injectors are enough to run E85, and I do. I really like the system a lot, in speed density mode at high altitude with a large cam I get next to no vacuum but I'm still able to tune it enough to get 10 mpg with no overdrive, on E85!

It's a versatile system, I don't have it controlling spark but with an HEI dizzy it will do so if you wish. Or you can build your own multiport setup and simply click the 'MPI' button to switch from TBI. The computer is capable of running 8 high impedance injectors or 4 low impedance, peak and hold style. Holley sells a converter box for about 200 bucks to run 8 peak and hold injectors.

I did bypass the tbi's internal regulator in favor of one that I knew would be safe with E85 along with a much larger fuel supply system.

[Henry Lavrenz]

I also run the Holley Commander 950 with MPFI on my turbocharged 401 Wagoneer. I'm using the Ign. control with a crank trigger and a wide band 02 sensor. Very good system and great tech support. Hankrod

[Goose]

:shock: How about some pics of that "Turbo Waggie"??

I would love to put a Turbo on the J-10..

I am just obn the wrong side of the equation right now

Money+Time*J10= Whooooo HOOOOO!!!

Unfortunately right now it looks like this
0+0*J10= error....