Newb in need of guidance

[hoki06]

Besides oil changes and some overheating troubleshooting, I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to engines. I'm getting a free 360, not sure the specifics on it yet, but I want to use it to learn how to build an engine. Are there any good AMC books or just general V8 rebuild books or DVDs you guys would recommend? I'd love to take a class and learn hands on with someone watching over my shoulder but regular school doesn't leave much time for extra classes. Thanks for the help.

Eric

[tufcj]

Welcome to the world of AMCs and Bulltear. :!:
Ask anything you want, lots of helpful people here.

This is one of the better books.

http://www.hobbyobsession.com/bjsbook.html

There's also this book, but it hasn't been updated since the early 70s.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-1968-1969-1972-AMC-JEEP-V8-PERFORMANCE-MANUAL_W0QQitemZ400004906547QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em400004906547&_trkparms=72%3A727

Bob
tufcj

[hoki06]

Thanks Bob. I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions.

Any specific engine stand you guy recommend? I'm looking at this one because I could pick it up from Sears and not worry about shipping

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00990103000P?vName=Automotive&cName=CarElectronics&sName=Other%20Accessories&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a

[tufcj]

Probably overkill. An AMC V-8 weighs less than 700 LBS fully dressed. I've got a 1000 LB stand from Harbor Freight that was around $50 on sale. Just depends on what you want to spend, and how much you use it.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=32916

Bob
tufcj

[northplainsdrifter]

Look on Craigslist as there always seems to be someone getting rid of a stand.

[hoki06]

Ok I'm picking up my free 360 on Sunday and I have a few questions. I ordered a stand from Sears, this one to be exact http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00990103000P?vName=Automotive&cName=CarElectronics&sName=Other%20Accessories&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a

I've never used an engine hoist or stand so, first off what type of chain should I buy to use to lift the motor and how much will I need?

How do I attach the engine to the stand? I doubt the stand comes with bolts so what size bolts do I need to go buy? I need to get all this done Sunday so I can return the engine hoist I'm borrowing to the local offroad shop. Thanks for the help!

Eric

[hoki06]

I'm guessing the bolts will be the same size/pitch/thread as the bell housing bolts. Still can't find that info anywhere though..

[tufcj]

This tool is worth it's weight in gold..
http://www.autozone.com/Ntt,engine%20leveler/shopping/allResults.htm;jsessionid=A45558A70F2A0A18159E3476 E6340B7F

But for a 1 time use, go get a piece of 3/8" chain about 2 feet long. You should be able to get a manifold bolt thru the link. Attach it crosswise (left front/right rear) to the intake manifold bolts.

The bolts for the engine stand will be 3/8" for top holes and 7/16" for the bottom. You need 2 bolts of each size Length will depend on the stand, probably 3 1/2" to 4" long. Be sure they're at least grade 5, grade 8 is better.

Bob
tufcj

[hoki06]

This tool is worth it's weight in gold..
http://www.autozone.com/Ntt,engine%20leveler/shopping/allResults.htm;jsessionid=A45558A70F2A0A18159E3476 E6340B7F

But for a 1 time use, go get a piece of 3/8" chain about 2 feet long. You should be able to get a manifold bolt thru the link. Attach it crosswise (left front/right rear) to the intake manifold bolts.

The bolts for the engine stand will be 3/8" for top holes and 7/16" for the bottom. You need 2 bolts of each size Length will depend on the stand, probably 3 1/2" to 4" long. Be sure they're at least grade 5, grade 8 is better.

Bob
tufcj

Thanks Bob, thats a big help. Could I also just wrap the chain around the motor a couple times? I've got about 20ft of 3/8" chain at my disposal.

[tufcj]

I've pulled an engine with a tow strap wrapped around it. The problem is there's a good chance you'll dent the pan and valve covers. They're only tin, not meant to support any amount of weight. A couple of feet of chain and a couple of bolts and thick washers can't be more than $5 at a local hardware store.

There's always a deal like this that mounts to the top of the intake. I've never trusted the weight of an engine to four 5/16" bolts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HEAVY-DUTY-ENGINE-LIFT-PLATE-15042_W0QQitemZ270277630835QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMoto rs_Automotive_Tools?hash=item270277630835&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Bob
tufcj

[ironman_gq]

I use the empty accessory holes in the head. go from the front of one head to the back of the other head across the motor.

[hoki06]

Its here! Picked it up today along with a NV3550 for the YJ to replace the failing AX-15. Everything went smoothly and thanks Bob for the bolt sizes, you were spot on.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_5922.jpg


I'd like to verify exactly what year/model this thing came out of. I was told its from a Waggy but not 100% sure because its been sitting around for a while, passed from one person to another for free. I know there are numbers stamped somewhere on the block. Where are they and once I have them how do I use them to look it up? Thanks!

Eric

[tufcj]

Once the valve covers and intake are off, there MIGHT be the last digit or 2 digits of the year cast in the head and on the block in the lifter galley. A "7" could be 77 or 87, so there are a few other things that can tell. It won't make any difference getting parts, 360s are pretty much the same from 74-91, the earlier ones had some differences.

Bob
tufcj

[hoki06]

I'll look for those once I start tearing into it. I did find these numbers on the intake manifold right behind the carb though. They're probably just markings for the manifold itself, not the actual block.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4034.jpg

[tufcj]

Yep. That's just the casting # for the manifold. The casting # for the block is on the drivers side bellhousing flange, toward the top. They used the same number for all 360 blocks for many years, so it's not much help.

Bob
tufcj

[hoki06]

So I got a little wrench happy tonight. It started with taking off a valve cover and see how it looks under there. Then I progressed to taking the stuff off the top such as the thermostat housing, distributor, carb and so on.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4045.jpg


Then I say to myself, hey I wonder if I can get the intake manifold off.... Well it turns out I could lol

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4053.jpg

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4058.jpg

Uh oh..... I'm addicted ::twisted:




But I do have a couple questions after my little adventure tonight. First of all, what is the best way to get the rust off everything? I'm mainly worried about the outside of the block and heads because I'll be getting a new manifold and accessories. Can I do something like an acid dip?

Secondly, what is the procedure for taking the heads off. I'm guessing take the valve spring bolts out then do something with the pushrods?


I found this under the intake manifold

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4055.jpg

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4056.jpg



Looks like I'll be getting into this engine build earlier than expected lol

[AMX69PHATTY]

Stop, turn, and run the other way. :wink:

There is no known cure and its probably allready too late.

Would there happen to a be a small aluminum tag about 1 inch square attached to one end of one of the valve covers with a single screw ?

If so keep this tag and the special Posi-Drive screw, and what are the numbers on the tag ?

At least a 1974 or newer probably, 4 bolt balancer and bridged rocker heads.
The Ford MotorCraft DuraSpark Distributor also dates it, but not sure what year range, maybe someone else does. Not sure if the DuraSpark Distributors are stamped with a date code the same as the earlier Delco Distributors were. Any numbers stamped on the Distributor housing ? Plan on using the DuraSpark Distributor ?

Engine shop can tank the bare block and heads to clean'em up.

[hoki06]

Would there happen to a be a small aluminum tag about 1 inch square attached to one end of one of the valve covers with a single screw ?

If so keep this tag and the special Posi-Drive screw, and what are the numbers on the tag ?

I don't think so but I'll check again tomorrow. I think I remember seeing where it should be but it wasn't there.


At least a 1974 or newer probably, 4 bolt balancer and bridged rocker heads.
The Ford MotorCraft DuraSpark Distributor also dates it, but not sure what year range, maybe someone else does. Not sure if the DuraSpark Distributors are stamped with a date code the same as the earlier Delco Distributors were. Any numbers stamped on the Distributor housing ? Plan on using the DuraSpark Distributor ?

I can check for stampings on the distributor and housing tomorrow. I have no idea what distributor I'll use yet. Right now I'm just doing some reverse engineering by tearing it down and learning how things go together/come apart. I know I can tackle the mechanical side of things, just need to learn the rest like choosing cams, pistons, and all that other junk.

[tufcj]

It's probably a 1984 block. There might also be a number on the heads in the same position as the casting number, on the opposite end.

To remove the heads, the rockers come off first. Remove the bridges with both valves closed, then rotate the engine to close other valves. If you remove a bridge with a valve open, the bridge can snap (from experience here).

Once the rockers are off, remove the head bolts. A pry bar in one of the intake ports and a tug will pop it off. Turn the engine on the stand so the head is level.

It looks very clean inside, looks like you have a great builder. :!: :t:

If you have access to a pressure washer, you could go to a hardware store and get a gallon of muratic acid. Put it on with a spray bottle, let sit 5-10 minutes, then pressure wash off. It will remove all the surface rust. BE SURE TO WEAR EYE AND BODY PROTECTION. It can cause nasty burns.

Bob
tufcj

[hoki06]

What do I use to turn the motor to open and close the valves? I think I've seen people use a breaker bar or something but where do I attach it?

[mkzmomo]

you could use a crankturning socket or use bulltear crank turning nut, this is the one i'm using right now in my rebuild

[jinpdx]

Thats assuming the engine is not froze up.

[hoki06]

I didn't find any numbers on the distributor when I looked before work this morning.


Thats assuming the engine is not froze up.

I'm hoping its not

[ironman_gq]

most engine rebuilding shops will clean your block for you for a reasonable fee. they dip them or put them in a steam cabinet to blast the crud off and then some will bake them and bead blast em too. we have a shop up here that will clean your block and send it back looking like the day it came of the foundry line for about 75 bucks.

[hoki06]

most engine rebuilding shops will clean your block for you for a reasonable fee. they dip them or put them in a steam cabinet to blast the crud off and then some will bake them and bead blast em too. we have a shop up here that will clean your block and send it back looking like the day it came of the foundry line for about 75 bucks.

I guess thats another thing I need to research. Do you guys know of any good machine shops in the Northern VA area?

[hoki06]

Tag on the valve cover reads: 412N04

Didn't take the heads off because I've got some questions. First, can I take the heads off without the crank turning nut?

Secondly, in this next picture, what is the part that I have labeled A? Should that part A be able to rotate? And any tips to remove the bolt I've circled? I soaked it with PB for several hours with no luck. Can I take an impact to it?

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4063_edited.jpg



And in this picture, notice the chunk of the head missing. The bolt that goes there was not on the intake and the chunk fell off after I took the manifold off. I'm guessing I'll need a new head.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4070_edited.jpg

[mkzmomo]

A is the damper is should be turning with a socket but it wont be easy to turn since everything is still connected inside the bloc ( pistons, head assembly, camshaft ),

for that stock bolt use a breaker bar or mid impact gun

the best would be to get a new set of heads so that everything is in good condition you dont want a leaking head when everything is done :t:

[tufcj]

Tag on the valve cover reads: 412N04

4 = either 1971 or 1984. Since it has bridged rocker heads, I'd say 1984.
12 = December
N = 2 BBL 360
04 = 4th day of month

So you have a 2 BBL 360 built December 4th, 1984.


Before you trash the head, a shop may be able to weld and re-tap that hole, since there's no sealing surface around it. What concerns me is to the left on the block looks like a crack, it could be a casting mark.

The stuck bolt may be corroded into the aluminum timing cover. An impact gun and some heat from a torch may be needed.

Pull the heads and look at the cylinders. If there's open valves and you can't turn the engine, loosen both bolts on the bridge evenly, a couple of turns at a time.

Bob
tufcj

[hoki06]

I see what you're talking about with what looks like a crack. I'll check that out more tomorrow.

Is the bridge the part that connects the two rockers? So there'd be 4 per head if its the thing I'm thinking about.

[tufcj]

Yep. The bridge is the part that connects the 2 rockers. They can snap if you loosen one unevenly while it has spring pressure on it.

Bob
tufcj

[hoki06]

Got the heads off without any broken bridges. 2 of the cylinders are pretty rusted up, looks like water sat in there for a while. I got the one stuck bolt out finally with the use of a little M=F*L (if you're engineerd like myself). I finally got the crank to rotate a little but not very much. Just enough to see some pistons move half an inch or so.

How do I get the damper off? It looks like that needs to come off before I can take the timing cover off. Here are some pictures:

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4079.jpg

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4080.jpg

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4081.jpg

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4082.jpg

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/IMG_4083.jpg

[hoki06]

And all of the pictures I've been taking are here in this album:

http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/hoki06/AMC%20360/

[mkzmomo]

the harmonic balancer will come out with the use of a puller and will go back in with an installer. It's a great tool to have if you have the money for it.

looks like you will need a good machine work on those cylinders

keep it up ! :t:

[tufcj]

There's a bolt in the center of the harmonic balancer. That needs to come out. You will need a puller to get it off. You should be able to borrow/rent/buy a harmonic puller at most auto parts stores.

DON'T try a regular 2 or 3 finger puller, you can easily damage the balancer.

Pour some ATF in each cylinder and let it sit a couple of days. Then work it back/forth until you can turn it. With enough rust in the cylinders to stop it from turning, you're almost guaranteed to need a bore to clean it up.

Bob
tufcj

[hoki06]

Once I get the balancer off and the pistons moving, is there a specific procedure for revoming the bottom end? Or can I just go bolt by bolt and work my way down through? It looks like all I've got left to remove is timing cover and chain, cam, crank, pistons and other stuff on the bottom end.

[hoki06]

My local Advance Auto only has the 3 prong puller. Any idea where I can find a 4 prong one?

[hoki06]

Acutally I'm not sure which type it is. It looks like this

http://www.restockit.com/images/Product/medium/SUN3901.jpg

[mkzmomo]

you dont need a 4 bolts puller but you'll need to get a puller and installer kit if you want to put it back on


Last kit on this page is what your looking for, try looking around in your local tool shop

http://www.mytoolstore.com/wilmar/wtech06.html

maybe someone can give you some places, I'm in canada so it wont be the good one haha

[hoki06]

Got the balancer off along with the timing chain cover, chain, and cam. How do I get the gear off the end of the cam?

I guess the next step is the crank and pistons. I've got ATF fluid sitting in the cylinders now. Should I wait until I can fully rotate the crank before trying to remove everything else?

[mkzmomo]

for th gear on the cam.... are you talking about the cam gear or the timing spocket ? for the gear its a small bolt in frontof the cam, if the gear is stock on the cam just use a rubber hammer ... timing gear you need to pull it as one unit. pull it top and bottom one side at a time it will get out.

pistons should get out using hammer and 2' piece of wood, it on the side of the piston skirt, if its stock the ring will break its ok you need new one any way and you will need a cylinder job too

[hoki06]

for th gear on the cam.... are you talking about the cam gear or the timing spocket ?

Its the gear that connects the cam to the crank, whatever that one is called.

Unfortunately I have to put this on pause because I'm back down at school until the semester is over. I'll get back into it once I'm home for winter break. But today was a good day with a win over UVA :lo1l:

[mkzmomo]

then you're talking about the timing chain gear... try pulling the upper first abit then the lower one... do that back an forth a couple time it should come off. Its coming out as one unit.