AMC 360

[CJ Runner]

I should be able to start my CJ5 in the next couple days :t: and since I've never done this before I had some questions. To give you some background it's an AMC 360 w an edelbrock performer intake and rebuilt Holley 4160 600CFM carb. I've upgrade the distributor witha bigger cap and rotor and put on a pair of headers. I've also added a painless wiring harness.

I plan on using Shell Rotella to pre-oil and break in the engine as it was recommended by the company I bought my engine from (S&S engines).

I need to set my engine timing and while I've read how to do it on previous threads (any tips/experiences are appreciated though), I'm unsure as to what my initial timing should be. Initial is 8* BTDC for the AMC 360 correct? Will this change since I've put a 4bbl intake and Holley 4160 600CFM carb on the engine? This is a newly rebuilt carb so should a worry about getting the cam broke in before adjusting it?

I plan on having my dad start the engine and watching the tach to keep it around 2000 RPM as was recommended for breaking in the cam. Would it be beneficial to have a vacuum gauge to read the manifold vacuum? I've read that it is very important to break in the cam at approx 2000 RPM to avoid developing flats on the cam lobes. So do I just set the initial timing and run the engine like that and then set the proper engine timing at idle when the cam is broke in? Should I plug the vacuum advance while breaking it in or plug it to the ported vac on my carb since I'll be running at around 2000 RPM? What type of oil pressure should I be seeing at around 2000 RPM.

[mkzmomo]

2000 rpm for 20 minutes for came break in and use engine zinc additive since today's oil dont have enough ( zddp for exemple ) and first of all dont forget to prime your engine with a priming tool or your drill and old dizzy, just make sure to double check everything :idea: and good luck :!: !!

[AMX69PHATTY]

What Distributor is it ?
Ones from eBay have been known to have "issues".
Not mating properly with the Timing Cover, Drive Gear, and Oil Pump drive.
STOP and do not proceed if source of Distributor and drive gear is not known.

What Distributor Drive gear was installed on the Distributor shaft ?
Best to use the original AMC Distributor Drive Gear from the original Distributor shaft
that was allready ran with and mated to the original AMC Distributor Gear that was on the Camshaft.
Many have destroyed Drive Gears from using aftermarket Distributors or Mis-Matched Gears.
Munched drive gears mean metal shavings all through the new engine, not a good thing.

Oil Zinc ZDDP Additive
Yes, Rotella-T has ZDDP additive, but not as much as it used to.
Local GM dealer sales something called "EOS" in a 1 pint bottle for ~$12.
Strongly recommend getting a pint and adding it to the oil for break-in.
For insurance 1/4 pint EOS can also be added with each oil change.
BullTear also offers for sale at a reasonable price it's own custom blend AMC HD Oil which contains sufficient amounts of ZDDP.

Oil Filter
Many find the AC Delco PF24 Oil filter to be better than others at preventing drain-back,
quickly building pressure on start-up, and almost immediately turning off the Oil Pressure light.

Pre-Oiling, Distributor Install, & Initial Timing
Minimize the amount of turning over of engine before first start-up.
Remove Valve Covers during pre-oiling.
Pre-oil using a power drill and preferably a BullTear Pre-Oiling Tool, or something other.
Do not push down too hard on pre-oiling tool to prevent scoring oil pump cover with oil pump gears.
Pre-Oil until Oil is seen coming from top of pushrods onto rockers.
Oil may appear only at some of the rockers when pre-oiling.
Rotate engine 90 deg by hand, run drill, oil should appear on other rockers.
Repeat this process until oil discharges from all pushrods onto the rockers.
By hand, turn over engine to TDC on Compression on #1 Cylinder.
While Dizzy is still sperate from the engine Install the Dizzy Cap.
Useing tape and a marker, make a vertical mark on the lower housing in line
with the #1 cylinder post position on the distributor cap, remove cap.
Now, being sure the Dizzy to Timing Cover Gasket is in place, install the Dizzy into the Timing Cover.
Position Rotor Button approx 2 cap post positions counter clockwise from the #1 Cyl tape mark.
Rotor button will rotate upon dizzy insertion into the engine and should end up aligned with #1 cyl tape mark.
Once installed rotate housig slightly Counter Clockwise so that Rotor Button is located
about 5 degrees CCW from the #1 Cap Post tape mark.
This should set initial timing at about 10 deg advanced.
Have a timing light already hooked up and ready to go before first start-up.
Have Dizzy clamp snug enough to hold dizzy but still allow adjustment.
Initial Advance at idle is somewaht incidental and insignificant.
Total sum of Initial & Mechanical Advance is what matters.
With Vacuum Advance disconnected, Total Advance should be 38-40 deg with mech adv all in.
Is the amount of total mech adv and at what rpm know for the new dizzy ?
Mechanical Advance springs and weights should allow a max of ~24 deg and be all in before 3000 rpm.
Use of a Dial-Back Timing light makes this process much easier.

Break-In Run
Upon first start-up use light to check and set timing to maybe 25-30 deg advanced at 2000 rpm.
DO NOT let the engine idle long during break-in run or for first few hundred miles.
More or less continuously vary the rpm between 2000 to 3500 rpm during break-in run.
Vacuum Gauge attached to Manifold vacuum is a good idea.
Vacuum gauge should be fairly rock steady while running.
Leave Vacuum Advance disconnected during break-in run to allow the 38-40 deg total advance to be checked.

Oil Pressure
Would say on a cold fresh engine should see 65 psi max at 2000 rpm.
Keep an eye out for pressure spikes and watch the filter for ballooning.
Stock Pressure Relief Plunger and Spring should prevent pressure from exceeding 65 psi.
If the Oil Pressure Relief Plunger happens to stick, pressure can spike and ballon the filter.
If Oil Pump was packed with Vaseline it can can collect behind the plunger and cause it to stick.
Vaseline can also somewhat clog the Filter under oil gets hot enough to melt it.

Any plans to video the event and post it on YouTube ?

:t:

[CJ Runner]

Thanks for the responses.

Distributor
This is the stock motorcraft distributor from my 1978 jeep CJ5 that had the 304. The distributor gear looked good so I'm reusing the distributor, but with a bigger cap and rotor from a late model ford.

Oil Zinc ZDDP Additive
Will do on adding the EOS...Thanks :t:

Oil Filter
I bought a Napa gold oil filter. Should that be sufficient?

Pre-Oiling, Distributor Install, and Initial Timing
I have a primer and will keep the valve covers off to make sure oil comes up the pushrods. You said with vacuum advance disconnected total advance should be 38-40 w/ the mech adv all in....advance is that much without the vacuum advance connected (I'm still new to engines)?

I didn't use vaseline to pack the oil pump, when I rebuilt it I just used oil.

I will post the video on YouTube so keep checking back to the thread for the link :t:

[AMX69PHATTY]

Oil Filter
Yes, Napa Gold (Wix) is also a good filter.
NAPA #1049 = Long Filter and does not have anti drain back valve.
At least the ones I have bought did not have them.
NAPA #1258 = Short Filter and has anti drain back valve.
For me, AC Delco PF24 built pressure considerably quicker, as well as the AutoZone S25 STP Filter.

Pre-Oiling, Distributor Install, Initial Timing, and Recurving Distributor
Yes, total advance should be 38-40 deg with mech adv all in and vac adv disconnected.
Including Vacuum Advance, total maximum potential timing advance is ~54-60 degrees.
Many stock distributors have about 36-38 degrees mechanical advance with the original travel stop.
But stock weights and springs take 4400+ rpms for it all to come in.
This is why stock initial is typically 1-3 deg advanced at idle.
Limiting Mech Adv to ~24 deg allows initial to be bumped to ~14 degrees and still maintain 38-40 total.
Lmiting to 24 deg and using lighter springs allows it to be all in before 3000 rpm and increases performance.
Re-curving a MotoCraft is a little more difficult than a Delco.
Weights and Springs are buried all the way down in the bottom.
But the Mech Adv plate is made with (2) Travel Limit "slots" and only one is used at a time.
It can be removed and switch to the other slot to change the amount of total mech advance.
The width of the "slots" determines the total Mech Adv.
Advance Plate are stamped with number of deg by each slot iirc.
Slot width can be narrowed with a tig welder to reduce the amount of advance.
May also be able to put a short piece of vac hose over the travel stop "post" to limit travel.
Dizzy turns at half engine rpm, so angles at the dizzy are doubled at the timing marks on the crank.
So 24 deg mech adv at the crank is only 12 deg at the dizzy.
Mr. Gasket #925D is a kit that has a lighter pair of Mech Adv Springs for the MotorCraft dizzy.

link to write-up on re-curving the MotorCraft DuraSpark dizzy:

http://www.carbdford.com/viewtopic.php?t=5543

[1981cj7]

I need someone to explain to me how using an oil pump priming tool will get oil all the way to the rockers. I don't know much about how it all works, but I thought the oil is moved through the push rod but the lifter pumping action. If you are not moving the cam, how is the lifter pushing the oil up the push rod?

Thanks,

Charles

[tufcj]

The lifters sit in an oil passage. Oil is pumped into the lifter from the side, then out to the pushrod from the top. The pumping action moves some oil, but isn't necessary, as oil pump pressure will get it all the way to the rockers.

Bob
tufcj

[1981cj7]

Thank you TufCj.

Charles