Howell vs. Affordable Fuel Injection for AMC V8

[Agar426]

Am getting ready to swap a 360 in place of the 304 in my CJ-6, and desperately want it to be fuel injected. I had been thinking of going with the Howell, but have recently noticed the kit from Affordable Fuel Injection.

The Howell system has been around but the system from Affordable FI includes an HEI distributor that has both fuel and spark control. Now I know less than nothing about fuel systems, carbureted or fuel injected, so I don't really know what that means.

Here is what I want: Stock or slightly stronger than stock 360 that starts and idles all day every day and is not finicky given altitude changes (during hunting season we go from 5000 ft to 11000 ft at a moments notice). I figure with 360 ci on hand, I should have 350 - 400 lb.ft. of torque, and that should be plenty for a CJ-6. If I only end up with 250 hp, I'm ok with that. Start, idle, and run reliably/consistently are the priorities, with better than stock performance hopefully a by product.

EFI Options:

1) Howell TBI with DUI to compliment it (still no spark control, correct? And, do I need spark control?)

2) Affordable Fuel Injection TBI system with HEI

Additional questions:

1) I will likely be going the crate engine route. Any advice on a particular vendor?

2) Any recommendations on modifications to a stock long block - RV cam, Edelbrock heads, headers, etc.? Or should I just stick with a stock long block?

Any advice would be enormously helpful!!

Thank you!

[tufcj]

I've had the Howell EFI system on my CJ for 8 years now. Except for a bad O2 sensor, it's been flawless. I did the install in a day, including adding the new 3/8" feed and 5/16" return lines Howell suggests, but doesn't require. Stock lines are 5/16" feed and 1/4" return.

If you talk to the guys at Howell, they can build a harness that is compatible with HEI and does spark control, since their system is based on a 1991-1995 GM TBI system. I run the system with a Mallory Unilite ignition (not controlled) that has been recurved to my engine, and it works well.

Howell will ask you some specifics about your engine if you go with them. Intake (single, dual plane), exhaust (headers, manifolds, single, dual), cam duration and lobe separation. So you'll need to know that before you order.

I haven't seen any reviews on the Affordable system, so I can't comment. You take your chances on quality with any rebuilt from a high output rebuilder. Your best bet is to find a quality core, and take it to a reputable local rebuilder. It will cost more, but you'll know what goes into it, and it will probably last longer and run better in the long run.

Bob
tufcj

[Brett Polwell]

I have had Howell on my stock 401 for over 2 years now. I also put a D.U.I distributer in at the same time. I have had no reliability issues. I live in Illinois and have had it in the mountains in Colorado with no issues. It idles great and it will get 12 miles to the gallon with 37 inch tires, 3.73 gears and a 727 running 70 on the interstate in a wrangler.

Only one complaint. It is very cold blooded. Always starts great but if you try to move it before it get some temperature in the motor it doesn't like it. Its great after about 5 minutes on a cold Illinois morning.

[pb]

I can't say anything about Howell, but my experience with AFI was horrible. Long time to deliver, wrong harness, forgot part, long time to receive part, gave incorect wiring directions for said part, then wouldn't believe me when I said the directions were incorrect. I had to send the instructions back just to get them to acknowledge that they were incorrect. the bin on the chip made the Jeep run like a dog that couldn't get out of its own way.

[PumpkinCrusher]

Thumbs up on Howell. Easy to install and great customer service. Engine runs awesome with it.

[cjmike67]

I have the Howell set up speced for my engine combo!Will let you know when its running!Very good customer service and attention to MY details!Mike

[Agar426]

I have the Howell set up speced for my engine combo!Will let you know when its running!Very good customer service and attention to MY details!Mike

Any updates?

[Dusty]

my howell system had a idle surge. and the "tuned" chip fo r my motor was fairly disappointing power wise compared to the power of my old carburator. I became tired of sending chips back and forth plus some day i hope to add electronic spark control.

I recently spent a couple dollars with craig moates following the instructions on binderplanet. best money i ever spent, i was able to dial down the high idle problem i had. i was also able to tune out flat spots in the acceleration curve and i regained all of my lost power. :mrgreen: the howell system was a great foundation to start with the moates burn 2 and upgrades to 28 pinn reprogramable chips made tuning and recording data a process that even the most ignorant of people could figure out.

consider that as an option i don't like relying on others who are 7-10 days worth of postage away to help me figure out my gremlin

[Agar426]

my howell system had a idle surge. and the "tuned" chip fo r my motor was fairly disappointing power wise compared to the power of my old carburator. I became tired of sending chips back and forth plus some day i hope to add electronic spark control.

I recently spent a couple dollars with craig moates following the instructions on binderplanet. best money i ever spent, i was able to dial down the high idle problem i had. i was also able to tune out flat spots in the acceleration curve and i regained all of my lost power. :mrgreen: the howell system was a great foundation to start with the moates burn 2 and upgrades to 28 pinn reprogramable chips made tuning and recording data a process that even the most ignorant of people could figure out.

consider that as an option i don't like relying on others who are 7-10 days worth of postage away to help me figure out my gremlin

I understand that TBI setups are very sensitive to vacuum and vacuum leaks. By any chance is your cam fairly aggressive, or did you have any vacuum leaks? The reason I ask is because I haven't ordered my TBI setup yet, but I did have a custom cam ground that was "compatible" with a TBI setup. My engine should arrive in a few weeks, so I need to decide ASAP on which EFI setup I'm going to go with....

[Dusty]

i could have gone bigger ont eh cam but the injectors are close to thier limits right now unless i up the fuel pressure and change the BPW in the fuel controls.

401 - 30 over
Decked, align bored and balanced
10/10 crank, resized rods, all ARP bolts
Forged 9.1:1 pistons
Lunati 58501
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/220
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .484/.507
LSA/ICL: 112/108
RPM Range: 1200-5500
Cast 502 heads (Mild Port match) w/ roller tip rockers
Edelbrock dual plane performer intake
mildly ported exhaust manifolds
670 TBI GM injection 85lb/hr injectors
HEI distributor

On a chassis dyno rear wheel numbers it put down the 292 hp @ 4900 rpm 389 ft/lbs @ 3500 rpm it had a similar 351 ft/lbs at 2000 rpm and carried numbers at and above 354 ft/lbs all the way to 4000 rpm. red line is 5500 rpm and it spins hard on the street to 4500-5000.
As you can see the above are rearwheel numbers
assuming 10-12% parasitic drivetrain loss it should be in that 320-330 hp 430-440 ft/lbs range. the shop that put it on the rollers called it out as 331 hp @ 4900 rpm 443 ft/lbs @ 3500 rpm it had a similar 393 ft/lbs at 2000 rpm and carried the same 400 ft/lbs all the way to 4000 rpm. idles smooth at 500-525 rpm red line 5500 rpm spins hard to 4500-5000. I was pretty happy


i suspect the lower hp number had to do with fuel injection issue above 4500 rpm i suffer a minor fuel supplly issue. injectors are too small or fuel pump can't keep up. i knew i was right at the limits of things on the fuel system.

Any cam witha 112 lobe seperation and duration under 228 @.050 and idle vac over 12 seems to idle just fine. a friend of mine is running a 110 lobe seperation with 13inches of vaccum and the 4bbl tbi unit and seems to be idling jsut fine.

[Agar426]

Ok....I follow what you're saying, thanks for the feedback! So even with Howell knowing these specs, you still had to work with them to burn a couple extra chips to get it right?

Here are the cam specs the engine builder sent me for the 360 being built:

Adv. Dur. - 262 int/270 ex
Dur @ .050 - 218 int/224 ex
LCA - 112
.493" int/.500"ex

The CR will be 9 to 1, and it will be running an Edelbrock Performer intake. I've yet to decide on what dizzy I'm going to run, but am currently leaning toward the DUI

[Dusty]

12 chips were mailed back and forth and they were never able to tune out the dead spot in the 1400-2000 rpm range, the top end performance from 4500-5500 and the idle climb/surge issue that i had.

There system is very nice and with a stock cam or close to it in a 360 with the 350 throttle body i can not see how you will have any issues, but on a 401 i am running the larger 670 throttle body and that seemed to be where the hickup in the giddy up was. tuning, being able ti diagnose in your garage and pin point errors in the programing makes all the difference vs waiting for someone else to "try" something different

[Dusty]

if you do the GM TBI system with the 670 holley TB unit

use the ASDU bin file for the fuel tables, maps programing etc and setup. Then I had a surging idle issue and creeping idle Itried adjusting the constants in the ASDU file to prevent the system from kicking into closed loop after the cold idle sequence ended but i must have missed a switching parameter that would kick the closed loop on. So I imported the constants table from an ANUA bin file. that is the 1989 454 manual tranny ECU (ANUA 6368), changed the BPW to the correct injector and fuel pressure setting. on mine it is bpw of 122 with fuel presssure at 15# and 85#/hr injectors since everything else inthe program is based around the ASDU bin but the constants table parameters from the ANUA sure brought in alot of favorable settings.

The 454 (anua) constants table does not allow the system to drop into closed loop at idle, all the settings are setup to prevent the very symptoms of idle creep and surging idle that larger tb units suffer from. Something even factory units were challenged with. so no more surging or creeping idle issues. then i just record data, tune the fuel table to work and start driving the heck out of it.