401 build complete with good news and bad

[cj5doc]

After 4 months my engine builder calls me and says I have good news and bad news..... Good news.. motor is finished minus valve covers (legends from bulltear) and the bad news is that when priming with a drill and break in oil the pressure goes right up to 60psi and after a few minutes drops to 20psi and fluctuates low. I am running a new Bulltear "Ultimate AMC oil pump (with upgrade options) $499.00. This is a collaboration of the best we make and offer in our shop. The kit includes a Ni plated oil pump/timing cover, A set of our HRC oil pump gears, A Ni plated #626 oil filter relocation plate, A Derale dual filter remote mount, Fittings for the plumbing, A new polished plunger and a new pressure spring and the gaskets for the Timing cover to block and the timing cover to water pump!"
My engine builder thinks the problem is in the oil filter relocation plate. Any advise?

[jeepsr4ever]

Are you running single or dual lines?

[cj5doc]

Dual

[jeepsr4ever]

Dual filter housings are sensitive to where they are placed they should not be placed higher than the oil pump. He most likely has an air bubble it should hit 65-70 PSI if everything else was built right

[cj5doc]

He primed with filters off using a bypass and I am not sure how high the housing was in relation to the pump. We did acheive 60+ psi for a few min..... it just would not hol it there.

[ironman_gq]

draining the pan and its not draining back to the pan fast enough the pump is loosing oil and sucking air

[sprink669]

draining the pan and its not draining back to the pan fast enough the pump is loosing oil and sucking air


Ok so what is the solution??? I have bought the same setup and I about to install mine very soon (when I receive all of my parts from Matt). I would like to see some pics to see how we are supposed to mount the dual filters? Really what would be the difference where the filters would mount? Isn't that the whole idea of the remote filters to get them out of the way. There has to be some pics of someone with a CJ that has this setup....

[fifesjeep]

You could always go with a larger sump/capacity pan... Find some narrow through hole pushrods... you can modify the valve covers and oil pan to run drain lines... I have a set of stock covers that I modified and soon once I get caught up I'll do the oil pan... (I have pics so when it's all said and done I'll post it)... :t:

[jeepsr4ever]

*Sometimes this can present a problem but when this has in the poast it is because the user installed the return line into the block where the oil pressure sending unit hole is supposed to be (And tapped it from 3/8npt to 1/2npt). Their is a large air gap and if you have a leaky gasket then you can have a oil pressure issue. All things being equal you SHOULD be getting 65-70psi. I dont think it is a problem of the pump those pump have crazy pressure. Have him take the 7/8 bolt off the side of the #534 or #626 plate and take the spring and plunger out and clean it then re-install it. Just like STD or HD oil filter adaptors these are subject to kicking back the pressure plunger is you have excessive dirt or even assembly lube in the motor. We NEVER assemble a pump with assembly lube or vaseline. We always soak the gears in oil or even squirt oil in the pump and then prime. This keeps that very thing from happening. Your oil pump is top notch and should pump a VERY high amount of pressure but everything else must be right. :idea:

[cj5doc]

Ironman.....I am running a 7 quart oil pan with 7 quarts of oil.
Fifesjeep....What you are saying is that you have modified your valve covers with holes and hoses runings down to your oil pan to drain excess oil? :-|

Jeepsr4ever(Matt).... I am sure the problem is a simple one. BTW...I asked you for instruction on installing your ultimate kit including, bolts, torque requirements, priming at startup, etc.... You never sent me the bolts and you told me there were no instructions. This was a custom piece (626) and it was supposed to be "simple" and now I am having problems with it. The kit when received did not even have a spring and plunger.... Are you sure the one you sent me is the right one? You also never told me the dual filter housing had to be below the oil pump..... Isn't that the reason for the "remote" oil filter... so you could put it where ever you want?.. away from the motor mounts, starter and headers.
I will try and put the stock oil filter housing on this weekend and see if i maintain my initial 60psi of pressure.

[fifesjeep]

Ironman.....I am running a 7 quart oil pan with 7 quarts of oil.

Hmmm, I'd run at-least another quart... possibly two. (that's just what I would do if I had that set-up)...
Huch oil will the oil fiters hold?
How much more oil will be needed to fill the added space/hoses etc?
If there is more space for the oil to occupy then more oil is needed. So... you have that extra space, your oil pump takes from the pan, fills that extra space which leaves you less in the pan... then your heads are probably starting to pool-up and with AMC's notorious crapy oil return you could be sucking your sump almost dry...


Fifesjeep....What you are saying is that you have modified your valve covers with holes and hoses runings down to your oil pan to drain excess oil? :-|
Yes sir, I cut the top of the valve covers off and a good buddy cut/bent and tacked the sheet metal. Basically Made it look like a chevy valve cover... tall/square and with the vent holes on the covers.. There is a fitting inserted in the rear of the cover which I am thinking about welding solid... :-| This fitting will allow me to run a SS braided hose from the covers to the pan... I am thinking about something with a 3/8" I.D.... But, I have to drop the pan and see how much clearance I have and where would be the best location to have the oil come in at...

[cj5doc]

Welllll...... Put the stock oil filter adapter on and "we have 60-70psi. We took apart the remote housing and could not see a problem. Untillll... I noticed the #'s on the housing...... 534 WTF..... Bulltear sent the wrong adapter plate!... The "ultimate kit" comes with the 626, or supposed to. My engine builder did not know this. He just put on what was sent to him. Problem fixed...... Wrong part.

[jeepsr4ever]

Negative the #534 replaces the #626 by use of 1/2npt plug supplied with kit. If you read through the explanation it answers your issue and helps diagnose.

[cj5doc]

Wrong part ..... and no further argument! What the heck is a '626' and a '534' anyway with no description... just numbers.... no instructions. I even asked by phone and email for instructions. How do you make a custom piece with different parts not assembled and missing the plunger and the spring and expect someone to know the difference between the '626' from a '534' if it was shipped wrong? BTW...No mounting screws were ever sent with torque settings that I had asked for. The "Ultimate kit" should have "Ultimate instructions" for the novice or the expert and the user can throw them away if they dont need them.

You stated "*Sometimes this can present a problem but when this has in the poast it is because the user installed the return line into the block where the oil pressure sending unit hole is supposed to be (And tapped it from 3/8npt to 1/2npt). "
No line was returned to the block where the oil pressure sending unit was. And nothing was tapped.

Wrong part.... no istructions.... OEM part works great (65-70 psi).... I'm returning the 534 with dual remote oil filters.

End of story.

[jeepsr4ever]

Instructions are engraved on the part "To filter" "From filter""Spring""plug""oil line in". We do this so you dont have paper instructions you can loose. The #626 is the same part minus the auxillary hole to pickup oil from the oil pan. When you use a #534 in place of a #626 the only change is plugging the "Oil line" hole.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/bulltear/534race.jpg

The "Oil line" in is the pickup from the pan (not used unless you have a swiveling pickup) and is the only difference between the #626 and #534. The "plug" hole can either be plugged or used with an oil accumulator or oil pressure sending unit. The "Spring" hole is where you put your spring and plunger and has a very nicely machined mating surface for the plastic or copper washer. The "To filter" is where you send oil to the remote filter and the "from filter" is where the oil comes back. You dont need a torque wrench on these items they just need to be snug. Sorry you didnt have any luck.

[cj5doc]

For us novice, weekend mechanics.... These instructions may help. I just put all your comments into one package. Include an 'included in kit' list and your set.

Instructions for 534 or 626

Your oil pump is top notch and should pump a VERY high amount of pressure (60-75psi) but everything else must be right. NEVER assemble a pump with assembly lube or Vaseline. We always soak the gears in oil or even squirt oil in the pump and then prime.
Instructions are engraved on the part "To filter", "From filter","Spring”, “plug","oil line in". We do this so you don’t have paper instructions you can loose. The #626 is the same part minus the auxiliary hole to pickup oil from the oil pan. When you use a #534 in place of a #626 the only change is plugging the "Oil line" hole by use of 1/2npt plug supplied with the kit.
The "Oil line" in is the pickup from the pan (not used unless you have a swiveling pickup) and is the only difference between the #626 and #534. The "plug" hole can either be plugged or used with an oil accumulator or oil pressure sending unit. The "Spring" hole is where you put your spring and plunger (supplied in the kit) and has a very nicely machined mating surface for the plastic or copper washer (also supplied in the kit). The "To filter" is where you send oil to the remote filter and the "from filter" is where the oil comes back. You don’t need a torque wrench on the fastening hex screws (supplied with kit). These items just need to be snug.

Note: Dual filter housings are sensitive to where they are placed and should not be placed higher than the oil pump, or you may likely develop an air bubble. The oil pump should create 60-75 psi oil pressure when priming. If you don’t maintain this try taking the 7/8 bolt off the side of the #534 or #626 plate and take the spring and plunger out and clean it then re-install it. Just like STD or HD oil filter adaptors these are subject to kicking back the pressure plunger if you have excessive dirt or even assembly lube in the motor.

[fifesjeep]

:shock: Hmmmm, :idea: Did I miss something #-o

[cj5doc]

"You don’t need a torque wrench on the fastening hex screws (supplied with kit)."

After 3 emails asking for the screws that were never sent with the kit I gave up and bought my own stainless.... PITA

[jeepsr4ever]

#-o My fault we have been slammed customer service has suffered. Working on a solution (new guy)

[fifesjeep]

Those are pretty pictures =D>