Sex & Squish !!

[Mudrat]

"Sex is about mating, Squish is about mating without making contact." -sing (sex without mating is absolutely NO fun though :? )

OK,
" 'Squish' or call them 'Quench Pads' " This and the line above had me doing research & writting tonight!! :?:

I got a PM from one of our members asking about where there was information on ‘grooving’ the heads to increase swirl and combustion. I ran into a dead end so I PM’d a few other folks about it since I had never heard of the concept (I’m not a total hermit stuck behind a keyboard all the time. :turn-l: ) We all know the intake needs some turbulence to mix up the gas with air for a better burn. I mean, look at all the external gadgits and geehaws folks are buying to increase the atomization of the fuel in the A/F mix - Turbulators? Endyne (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://theoldone.com/articles/expanded_pistons/Turbulators.jpg&imgrefurl=http://theoldone.com/articles/expanded_pistons/&usg=__VRvwfVkqyNW9AJo2pZrBdre_Vd8=&h=450&w=581&sz=36&hl=en&start=2&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=lem_4YgmzIJvrM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=134&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dengine,turbulators%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den %26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_enUS292US293%26tbs%3Disc h:1) puts them ON the piston, other put swirl stack between the carb and intake manifold. While ExtremeThings (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.xtremethings.com/Images/Mods/Turbulators02.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.xtremethings.com/Trick_Tips.htm&usg=__Ysy9YWG9VRq6YRnNOBZR7NQyCP8=&h=200&w=300&sz=16&hl=en&start=17&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=0kFgPtVkY44FlM:&tbnh=77&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dengine,turbulators%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den %26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_enUS292US293%26tbs%3Disc h:1) machines in 'speed bumps' when they port heads to increase swirl.

The ‘inventors’ name of this 'groovy' thing is Singh. Here’s some of what came in and what I found after being told where to start looking (Thanks Goose and MC) :t: It kind of makes sense when the piston comes up the A/F mix is "forced" through the 'groove' towards the spark plug creating some turbulence, and if opposit the spark plug, it would 'maybe' channel some of the flame into the 'squish zone'. So with all this going on all over the world there is deffinately something to all this. So, a bit of added swirl in the combustion zone can maybe add a little more ?? I also think an E3 plug in this instance would be good since it shoots away from the annode (down the 'groove?' instead of sideways :-| I know they helped on my small engines.

Anyway, Signh's Patent on the concept (http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6701883/fulltext.html)

Popular Science (http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2004-09/obsession-mr-singhs-search-holy-grail?page=1) on the concept (looks like some of the pages are incomplete though?) :shock:

Design flow (http://pesn.com/2005/10/13/9600187_Design_to_Improve_Turbulence_in_Combustion _Chambers/)

PESWiki page technology and report (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Singh_Combustion_Chamber_Turbulence) with some links to dyno sheets

A not so flattering thread on Jeep Strokers (http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=520&p=5773) by those who are “suspect” of a garage built performance idea. Odd though, we are ALL in the ‘garage built performance’ arena :-|

But a more positive thread on GoFast News (http://www.gofastnews.com/showthread.php/33-In-cylinder-turbulence-burn-rate/page11)

An AutoTronix, LLC report on dyno pulls (http://www.herningg.com/singh/Engine%20Running%20Tests%20Analysis.pdf), (67 pages)

And Part II Combustion Analysis Report (http://www.herningg.com/singh/Ionization%20current%20analysis.pdf) (30 pages)

And of course Singh’s web site (http://www.somender-singh.com/) (that really does read like an Infomercial and needs a Billy May's (or Vince from the Sham-wow commercials?)

And from that website – the reason why (http://somender-singh.com/content/view/102/52/)

Then a typical pic of the ‘job’ [Google search on "grooved heads" brought back a bunch-o-pics from around the world]

http://members.cox.net/dnjunk/aj377023.jpg

I can see where R&D would be needed to find the 'sweet spot' and then keeping the ‘groove’ consistent between cylinders would be a challenge, unless you had the mills and machines to do it right. A Dremal would be difficult at best, but a die grinder? 111!!!

I do have a couple 17 HP engines and a gas powered generator or two I could give it a try on!! :t: I mean just a port/polish and hand lapped valve job on my small generator netted an extra 45 minutes per tank (~12% better) and a higher RPM (I’m still trying to cope with) :oops:

Open to comments and discussions :!:

[jeep_man_401]

Intersting...I know dimping around the chamber has been around for some time. Same idea. Long term effects? Do they fill with carbon? What gains in power and milage? I wonder what this would do on a 13 to 1 E85 motor?? :-|

I polish the chambers on my heads and smooth them out...leaving the intakes rough and polishing the exhaust ports. Have yet to pull the heads to check the burn pattern.

[Old Rugged Crosser]

Just a couple of quotes from the articles about Singh's invention to peek your interest:

"The internals of the cylinder have not changed much since the early overhead valve
designs except for additional valves, ports and twin igniters to improve performance,"
says Singh, whose design involves changes in the combustion chamber of the IC
engines. All the air and fuel charge is compressed into and ignited in this chamber.
The result of this 'bang' inside the cylinder reflects on the engine's efficiency to burn
fuel. Lab experiments show that Singh's design improves the thermal efficiencies of the
engines. It also produces noticeable increase in torque and power along with low
emissions of unburnt hydrocarbon, carbon-monoxide, carbondioxide and nitric oxides.
"Most people in the industry and the scientific community doubt my claims," says Singh.
"I will prove them wrong."

The grooves add a new dimension to squish bands - meaning to say they bring down mean squish velocities due to the leaks caused by the grooves and promote progressive turbulence as the piston pounds the head - followed by multiple flame front spikes that burn the mixture trapped in the shadowed areas better - The best example would be the ARAI results. Combustion chamber designs and what happens inside has always come close to ' Black Art ' - Most claiming to know of it - but in reality - very few changes have evolved and revolved around the age old squish and quench concepts. Some think nothing much happens in the closing parts of the piston coming to TDC - while piston speed drop to zero !

This squish guide groove communicates the squish area defined between the squish surface and the piston top surface with the combustion chamber to thereby direct the squish flow produced in the squish area toward the ignition plug aperture (ignition plug). It is thus to be appreciated that there is produced a flow of air-fuel mixture around the ignition plug as directed by the squish guide groove so as to move toward the center of the combustion chamber at the time when the ignition plug is activated as the piston rises to its top dead center, so that the flame propagation rate within the combustion chamber may be advantageously enhanced since the ignition is effected on such flow of air-fuel mixture.


:sa: :sa: :sa:

[Mudrat]

I'm still kind of tossed on the idea.
If it really IS that simple why hasn't it been discussed or investigated by the major companies (Politics maybe?) but tested indepth before and, or identified as a 'snake oil fix'. But, on the other side, understanding quench, or 'squish', the 'groove' would allow the gasses in the small zone to be ducted to the spark plug, and the fire from the plug ducted into the small zones.
I think I'm going to try it on a generator first (cut with a die grinder). Measure in a gallon of fuel, load it with a standard load and see the run time (OK, maybe just a 1/2 gallon since the price per gallon is $2.80 a gallon here :oops: ) Then do the groove thing and re-run the test without tuning, and see where we're at. Looking at the empricial data from the Web last night, some straight line guys are confirming the 18-20% gains, and views of the carbon build up on 500 & 600 mile engines is reduced significantly. I've already gotten that plus an increase in RPM in my 2K generator by porting, ploishing and hand lapping the valves? But these results of 'grooving' are being posted from all over the world. It will be small test on my 2Kw generator first then go to a 17HP garden tractor - not willing to risk the heads in my Hemi yet #-o

[jeep_man_401]

I can't see why it wouldn't hurt to try on a set of aluminum heads, you can allows weld them back. I got a couple of iron heads that are a good candidate. But I have to much to do already. Need to finish the drive train before I tear apart another motor. Maybe the snow blower? Its on the fix-it list already. #-o

Would be neat to have a before dyno run and after. Wheres Hot Rod why you need them. Probably building another chevy one of ten thousand ways they have done. :roll:

[Old Rugged Crosser]

I have the heads (291-C) off of my engine at the present. Just ported and polished out the exhausts and port matched the intakes with a little cleanup on the inside radius. Getting ready to have chevy ss valves installed as I have to do the guides anyway, so the smaller stems do not cause me any problem. I would really like to try this communication grove while I am into this area anyhow. If any of you guys do the experiment would you please post it as soon as possible. :(: I too will be using a die grinder to make the grove.
Also I would like to mill the heads to raise the compression. The pistons are the stock dished tops. The gross lift on my cam is .520 & .523. How much could I take off the heads before running into a piston height problem? I will plasti-gauge it just to be sure of my clearances before I mill. What should the piston to deck height be? What are your idea's? 111!!!

[Old Rugged Crosser]

Has anyone tried any experiments with Signh's grove? I know several of you expressed some interest in doing a trial small motor experiment. I am ready to put my motor back together and would like to get some feedback. :sa:

[jeep_man_401]

Mine is still together. If it ever comes apart (hopefully not by itself!) I may try this groove. But it seems you could be the first to report back your results! :mrgreen: :t:

[Mudrat]

I haven't gotten back in the generator yet, got a 'few' other things on my plate.