Jeep won't stay running (ignition maybe)

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http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_2201.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_2203.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_2207.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_2104.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_2105.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_2289.sized.jpg

I rebuilt the carb/fuel to carb.

Set timing and adjusted while cranking to get her to fire.

Motor fires and stops running (Vroom, then doesn't stay running). I can keep hitting the key and it will fire then in RUN mode it will stop.

Is there a way to jumper the solenoid to the coil so it will stay running to see if it is in fact the ignition switch that maybe causing this?

Any ideas are helpful.

Thanks again,
Jim

[tufcj]

Not sure of color codes, but there is a dual power system to the ignition. One circuit supplies a full 12V to the coil for starting (key in start position), a second circuit supplies a lower voltage when the key is in the "run" position. Looks like a problem with the wiring for the run position.

Not sure how or if you can jumper the Motorcraft control box.

Bob
tufcj

[rollbar]

I'm using the I-6 wiring. Maybe someone has a idea as to the wire. Hum.

Thanks, Bob

[Old Rugged Crosser]

Jim regarding the top picture. Where does that red and white wire go. It should not be on that terminal. That post is only hot when you have the key turned to the start possition. As soon as you let the key go from the start possition it no longer supplies power to the coil. If you want to fire it, take that wire off and run it to anything hot. You motor will run. To turn the motor off at that point you will need to disconect that wire from the power source you just attatched it to. The problem is not in you key sw. Apparently you do not have a wire running from your ign. sw. to the coil. This you must have in order for it to stay running.

[rollbar]

Hum, not sure, I wired it 1.5 yrs ago. Maybe the black one goes there that is tye-wrapped off.

Thank Larry, will check and check grounds as well.

I will ger back to you all.

Can I make a jumper from that wire to the + side of the battery for testing?

[rollbar]

P.S. If that works, it would be a nice kill switch :) idea even though I messed up :(

[Old Rugged Crosser]

Hum, not sure, I wired it 1.5 yrs ago. Maybe the black one goes there that is tye-wrapped off.

Thank Larry, will check and check grounds as well.

I will ger back to you all.

Can I make a jumper from that wire to the + side of the battery for testing?

Yes!!!!!!!!!

[rollbar]

Thanks, I'll try it.

[Old Rugged Crosser]

Jim,

I'm just wondern if that wire that is hangen in the top pic dos'nt belong where the red/w wire is. Note that at the coil is the same wire with a connector on it.
Where does the red wire that is on the coil go. Do you have a multi meter that you can take that reading of that wire while disconnected and read with the key turned on? It should read peak voltage as you would read at the batt. If you read it at lower v. when someone holds the key to the start possition it is a resistance wire that should be for running long term. It would be my guess that the missing red/w at the coil wire would be for starting and should read full voltage.

Hope this doesn't confuse you to much. When working on electrical having a multi meter is a must.

[rollbar]

Hum, I'll have to check it out tomorrow afternoon, studying for class tonight (Colossians ch 3-4).

I will trace the red wire and the R/White wire.

THe R/W is the resistance one, correct?

SO U might be saying the R/W on the solenoid should be on the/connected to the coil?

I can wire a house/building etc but I HATE tracing wires down, oh well, a painless wireing system would be sweet but for the $$, na.

Thanks again,
Jim

[Old Rugged Crosser]

Jim,

Let me tell you what you should have: You should have a wire running from the s term. on the solenoid to the key sw S term. which activates the solenoid. You should have a wire running from the solenoid Ig. term to coil which will read full V. You should have a wire running from your key sw. Ig term. to coil. This would be a resistance wire and not read full voltage maybe 2 volts lower. This wire shuts off when the key returns to run from start.

The easiest way to trace a wire is with a ohm meter.

I love the study of Colossians and Galatians. The key to whom we are "In Christ."

Tha'ts what you need to have. How it achieves this, well that is a mystery.

[rollbar]

Thanks Larry, will check. Yep Preeminence of Christ - Preeminent; above all; before others; superior; surpassing.

I guess I would have to look on the column to find the wire and trace it (R/W correct).

[rollbar]

OK, using test light only.

1. Key on: nothing on the + coil/solenoid either side.

2. Start: + coil = light; solenoid = light on both sides

[rollbar]

I have to look. I have the old stock coil hook up in the harness and I used a separate module hook up, don't ask. I have to go look and see what's up. I did test the stock coil "U" clip w/the key on and no light. Might have to drop back and punt.

[rollbar]

Jeep won't stay running.

Sorry for all the questions etc.

I also hooked up a test light to the power steering bracket and tested it and it works from there so my grounding should be ok.

1. I ran a wire to the + side of the coil from the battery and as long as I keep the key on it would try to fire but when I let the key go it would not stay running. The starter was keeping it firing/spinning over etc.

2. Without the jumper wire to the + side of the coil it would just go VROOM and die.

3. Below wiring and routing for the Jeep.

4. NOTICE-the brown wire trying in w/the red/white and crimped then going to the solenoid, NOT SURE what that's about.

5. NOTICE-I know I don't need it but I left the old harness incase I wanted to install the I-6 again. Also Notice I just cut the ends off the solenoid and added crimped on ends but left them in their position. Also notice the distributor I hooked that one up and left off the one in the harness as you see at the top. MAYBE I need to use that one ?? But I don't think it has the green wire.
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_2106.sized.jpg

6. Any help would be appreciated even if I have to gut the wires and start over, but I would know where to start.


Solenoid - Note: the blue wire runs to the fire wall block plug.
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3056.sized.jpg

See the Red/White wire in the loom
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3057.sized.jpg

Solenoid Red/white wire tied into brown w/green lettering wire running to drivers side compartmenthttp://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3058.sized.jpg

Brown wire w/green lettering @ drivers side block tied into thicker red/white wire. Blue wire from solenoid into block. Notice the blue wire from the other side of the solenoid.
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3059.sized.jpg

Red thick wire from fire wall block and blue wire to module
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3060.sized.jpg

Red thick wire tied into the red/white one
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3061.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3062.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3063.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3064.sized.jpg

[rollbar]

OK, further investigation, no power at the red wire junction from the fire wall.

I do have power there (pic below) when I start it but NOT with the ignition key switch in the ON position.

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3059.sized.jpg

[rollbar]

1. I installed a new NAPA ignition switch = same problem.

2. Tried w/the Accell coil = same problem.

3. Took Accell coil out and used old coil = same problem. I know it works, I got zapped big time, don't ask how, wife was cranking it over, but i told her to.

4. I have two extra modules, hooked them up, cleaned the modules/fender for a good ground, ran a ground from the battery - to the modules = same problem.

5. Disconnected modules and tried to fire engine, would not fire. That is the only way I know how to check them at the moment unless someone knows a better way etc.

6. Wind blowing about 45+mph and the sand is very bad, had to quit for now.

7. Still have test light when cranking BUT NOT when key in in the ON position.

8. I'm thinking of stripping all the wires out of the looms and ....... I still have the wire looms from the I-6 setup and the computer harness is still there/computer plug in etc and all ends in case someone wanted to restore it back to factory.

9. At this point I think it would be best to get rid of all the extra wire (under the hood) but I don't know how to do that and not mess it up worse.

Thanks,
Jim

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OK, I ran a jumper wire from the + side of the battery to the red wire in the pic below and she ran and idled. When I removed the jumper wire, she died.

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3059.sized.jpg

I guess I'm gonna have to separate the electrical block at the fire wall and see it any connections are not making contact unless someone else has a better idea.

Thank you again,
Jim

[rollbar]

I was told this and it seems to be a worth while try:


In the first picture of the solenoid, disconnect both small red and blue wires turn the ignition switch to the run position test them for voltage the one with voltage connect to the coil plus, then turn the ign to the start position the other wire should have voltage only in the start position if thats the case connect that wire back on the solenoid , than the black wire that is disconnected in your picture connects to the opposite side of the solenoid that should be the ground wire , then you should be good to go.

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_2201.sized.jpg


HERE are my findings:

See next post

.06 volts at coil w/key in the ON position.

W/wires still hooked up to coil = .00

[rollbar]

OK, I had the kids help me and just to be sure here are the readings one more time and double checked:

Wires discoed from solenoid.

ON POSITION at the Solenoid:
1. Red to + on battery = 12.2v

2. Red to - on battery = 0.6v

3. Blue to + on battery = 12.8v

4. Blue to - on battery = 0.00v


START POSITION at Solenoid:
1. Red to + on battery = 10.7v

2. Red to - on battery = 2.0v

3. Blue to + on battery = 0.00v

4. Blue to - on battery = 12.8v

[Old Rugged Crosser]

Jim honestly, that is the worst rats nest of wiring I have ever seen and I have seen some bad ones. You are better off to strip it all out and start over. It is really not that hard to re-wire. It would be much easier to do that than to fight that mess. Just think what a mess it would be to break down on the trail and have to deal with that. I could probably give you instruction on the re-wire.

Just leave all wires running through the firewall. Detach all wires out front and take off all that plastic wire protection. Do not cut anything coming through the firewall.

[tufcj]

I'm really lost when it comes to wiring. I would suggest picking up a Haynes or Chiltons manual that has wiring schematics in it before chopping the whole thing out.

There is a guy on ebay who sells ones that are in color matching the wires.

Bob
tufcj

[fifesjeep]

I actually have the fold out wiring diagrams... I can snap some pics and upload them if that would help you.

[rollbar]

Larry,that is a old pic when I first laid out the harness. I will take a pic of the compartment.

I would like to go to bare minimum but like Bob.........

[rollbar]

FIXed IT!

Checked the switch re/red white/blue = all work.

Then at the fire wall inside the Jeep I have power except to the red/white wire, looked at the TAC lead, hooked it up and the rest is history.

I never hooked up/plugged in the TAC lead under the dash !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Runs perfect.

Sorry to run you all around for something stupid like a connector but I guess we all learned something from this thread.

I will post pics later.

Thank you so much,
Jim

P.S. Going back out to fiddle w/it, I'll check back later.

[rollbar]

Ok, here is the video.

Oil Pressure:
60psi = cold

45psi = warm

24psi = hot

Still have to get the temp gauge & fuel gauge working.

Thank you all for your help.


My U-Tube video of her fired up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQd0r7BnTHM

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Under dash pics:
Here is where the TAC was not hooked up:
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3071.sized.jpg

Under dash pics:
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3074.sized.jpg

Oops, I see I missed a sopt w/the U-POL Raptor
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3070.sized.jpg

Engine compartment pics:
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3065.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3066.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3067.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3068.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3069.sized.jpg

[Old Rugged Crosser]

Under dash pics:
Here is where the TAC was not hooked up:



Engine compartment pics:
http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3065.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3066.sized.jpg

http://www.street2mud.com/albums/M170Start/100_3067.sized.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Jim,

I still can't feature why you need so much wiring. I am running the same motor as you are and I don't have that much wiring.

Here is some pic's of my engine compartment:

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac282/lvanyi/Jeep%20Motor/000_00032.jpg

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac282/lvanyi/Jeep%20Motor/000_00032.jpg

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac282/lvanyi/Jeep%20Motor/000_0003.jpg

Mine is complete and will add nothing to it. How come so much difference?

[rollbar]

Larry, I used the I-6 harness and have yet to clean it up. not sure exactly how but I guess I can start at the ECM plug and work my way up the harness.

At least she runs :)

[msalaba]

The most confusing part of a Jeep ignition system is the solenoid connections. The blue wire is the "start" position +12vdc. It both actuates the starter solenoid and sends a signal to the Duraspark module. The red/white coming off the solenoid supplies a full +12vdc to the coil while cranking. It serves no other function. The purpose was to bypass the resistor wire while cranking for an easier start. All other ignition power is supplied through the ignition switch. (Kinda like burning your candle at both ends)

Here is a schematic for illustration:

62

[rollbar]

Thank you. I would really like to clean up the compartment.

[Old Rugged Crosser]

The most confusing part of a Jeep ignition system is the solenoid connections. The blue wire is the "start" position +12vdc. It both actuates the starter solenoid and sends a signal to the Duraspark module. The red/white coming off the solenoid supplies a full +12vdc to the coil while cranking. It serves no other function. The purpose was to bypass the resistor wire while cranking for an easier start. All other ignition power is supplied through the ignition switch. (Kinda like burning your candle at both ends)

Here is a schematic for illustration:

62

Masalaba: This should be made a "sticky." It should be under Ignition Wiring-- "Duraspark".

[Old Rugged Crosser]

Jim, You should really make a copy of that diagram. I'm sure you will need it in the future. That is some great information. That was kind of Masalaba.

[rollbar]

Thanks Larry, I printed it.

[msalaba]

Your welcome!

[rollbar]

Yes Thank you. Sorry, I thought I thanked you as well.

Thanks again,
Jim