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Apocalypse Fabrication
11-09-2012, 06:16 AM
I have been meaning to put this up for a while now. I would like to get suggestions and help from others that have been through the same process. I have read all of the builds here as well as other sites. Hopefully I have familiarized myself enough to get this up and working without much trouble! #-o

We received the gantry kit on October 24th and it came crated beautifully... Some of the washers and bolts didnt end up in baggies like the others, but I think I found them all...
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-5135-1351174407801.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-5135-1351174407801.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-23483-1351174408628.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-23483-1351174408628.jpg)

I used Matt's prints that he sent me a while ago and fabbed up a sketchup model that would be more customized to my needs. I will be putting this in a 24x24 garage and still parking my wife's car in there, so space is at a premium!
I have two renditions, since budget was a concern... we will be building the table in steps. Eventually it will look like this... possibly:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_CNCTableCompleteFront.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=CNCTableCompleteFront.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_CNCTableCompleteBack.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=CNCTableCompleteBack.jpg)
However, the first stage limits the steel rack, the desk and product drawers....
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_CNCTableStageOneBack.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=CNCTableStageOneBack.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_CNCTableStageOneFront.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=CNCTableStageOneFront.jpg)

Eventually, the complete version will have a pressurized compartment for the electronics and dust filters to keep everything cool and clean.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-09-2012, 06:30 AM
Bringing us up to date...



Bandsaw made the cuts nicely:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-35418-1351663364656.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-35418-1351663364656.jpg)

Pieces cut:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-40626-1351743369265.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-40626-1351743369265.jpg)

Easy way to cut slats... I chickened out going more than 8 at a time though:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-33476-1351663363034.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-33476-1351663363034.jpg)


I have been welding with my new Miller Dynasty 200 Tig. Please go easy on the weld quality; this is my first project and I am learning with every tungsten grind ><.

After wrestling with the fact that the concrete floor is no where near within 1/16" of flat... I put the table upside down up on the welding table that I made for myself previously... Finally a semi flat (we wont call it perfect, blanchard grinding is on my wishlist) surface.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-6962-1352358076614.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-6962-1352358076614.jpg)http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-2945-1352359335124.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-2945-1352359335124.jpg)
After only 2-3 arguments with my loving wife... we got it squared, level, and plumb... well as close as a tape measure will tell you.

Legs came next:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-38999-1352359333419.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-38999-1352359333419.jpg)

I dont think this is the intended usage of pipe stands... but it worked well... dangerous, but well...
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-10390-1352359324955.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-10390-1352359324955.jpg)

Flipping the table:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-14303-1352359398419.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-14303-1352359398419.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-10688-1352359303675.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-10688-1352359303675.jpg)http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-10944-1352359334271.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-10944-1352359334271.jpg)

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-09-2012, 06:34 AM
Leveling feet:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-13666-1352438874745.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-13666-1352438874745.jpg)

Feet welded on... bringing us to today:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-1561-1352438872164.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-1561-1352438872164.jpg)

I'd love to hear opinions on the design and any helpful tips on setup... I do have a few questions that Ill post next

There are plenty more pictures on the photobucket acct... feel free to look around or ask here if you'd like to see something or clarify it...

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-09-2012, 07:24 AM
How did everyone level the rails when mounting them to the sides? I have a digital Wixey level, 4 ft, 2 ft, and bullet levels. Do I need to get a couple 5-6 ft levels to be able to span the 55"?

jeepsr4ever
11-09-2012, 07:38 AM
If your table top is flat and your table is level then level it off the table top. After you start bolting the gantry to the side plates you have a decent allowance. You will be able to hear in the motor sounds if your off on one side and this is done by jogging the machine from front to back with either the keyboard or controller. This is one way the other way is with a levelling laser or a long level. The top base is the fastest way to do it.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-09-2012, 10:52 AM
Thanks... I dont trust laser levels... well, the cheapie I have. Seems like a good excuse to get a 6 ft and 8 ft level!

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-10-2012, 12:17 PM
Matt:

Should there be any paper instructions with the gantry kit? I thought it may be in bubble wrapped items, but I just opened everything and couldnt find any. I have looked through the forum here and I do see instructions listed around, but nothing that comes across as a coherent "start here" list?

Also, can I get a list of what should be included in the full gantry kit? I dont have a drill jig, bit, or tap? Wondering if I am missing these items or are they not included?

Thanks

Jason

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-10-2012, 12:36 PM
Here are pics of everything that I received:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/photobucket-37670-1352597673501.jpg http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/photobucket-23092-1352597672685.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/photobucket-37621-1352597671841.jpg http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/photobucket-30548-1352597670992.jpg

jeepsr4ever
11-11-2012, 12:27 PM
It is online

1st thing first, the gantry build

http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19161-Gantry-kit-users-(Instructions)

Next build your table from these three available prints

5x10 http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19129-2012-and-newer-5x10-table-prints
4x8 http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19135-2012-and-newer-Model-4x8-CNC-Plasma-table-prints
4x4 http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19128-2012-and-newer-4x4-table-prints

Next if you want to use the switches for the magnetic torch breakaway follow these guidelines for the switches

http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19193-Limit-and-Home-switches

Next setup your software (we suggest using our settings for Mach 3 and Sheetcam) You can however find all kinds of quick tips on youtube (our videos will be up fairly soon)

http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19154-2012-and-newer-software-setup-and-instruction-MACH

Your support disk will also have valuable info on understanding your settings and if you stuck please dont hesitate to call we know these inside and out.

jeepsr4ever
11-11-2012, 12:30 PM
We also quit giving out the drill jig. The tap size is 5/16-18 and the drill size is .265 or close. It is BEST and EASIEST to use a transfer punch for centering the hole.

Here

Part # 3374A28 Mcmaster.com $2.85 21/64" transfer punch

ssray
11-11-2012, 02:10 PM
If that's the first time you've done any welding I'd say it looks pretty good especially taking on TIG the first time. Good work! BTW, I have a Syncrowave 200 ... Nice machines!

Scott


I have been welding with my new Miller Dynasty 200 Tig. Please go easy on the weld quality; this is my first project and I am learning with every tungsten grind ><.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-12-2012, 03:03 PM
If that's the first time you've done any welding I'd say it looks pretty good especially taking on TIG the first time. Good work! BTW, I have a Syncrowave 200 ... Nice machines!

Scott

Not the first welding, but my first project with the tig. I have welded for years, O/A, Arc, and Mig. Syncrowaves are great. I almost got a 200 or 250, but decided to go inverter at the last moment.


Thanks Matt... I will get that transfer punch ordered and get back rolling with this project. I'm kinda disappointed that the drill jig isnt included in the kit anymore, the other builders seemed to be very happy with it.

jeepsr4ever
11-13-2012, 01:52 AM
Yes half were happy and half had big problems with the jig spinning in the hole then them breaking their drills in the hole on their tables (not good)

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-15-2012, 04:21 PM
Yes half were happy and half had big problems with the jig spinning in the hole then them breaking their drills in the hole on their tables (not good)

Our router went dead tonight... so I am on my phone. Hopefully tomorrow I can post a big update with lots of questions and pictures.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 02:19 AM
I am still waiting on pics to upload, but a couple questions for now:

I dont see anywhere in the instructions that mentions installing the motors, the z axis, or the magnetic torch mount. We had to do a lot of spying on YouTube to figure out the orientation of parts and approximately how to hook things up.

Matt, would you mind if I posted my own version of a comprehensive instruction manual? I think assembling a gantry kit should not be this difficult.

jeepsr4ever
11-16-2012, 03:03 AM
You can absolutely post up. Just a couple quick things we do before items ship and also some info

1. The magnetic plate is set to your Z axis and does not need anything special to setup. The unimount torch mount allows the use of .9-1.5" diameter torches. A 5/16-18 bolt holds in the smaller diameter.
2. The motor mounts are attached one way and there is a left and right. You will note the slot configuration. Attaching the motors can be a little tricky because one side uses a square nut and a slot for retention and the other side uses a flange nut. There are 2 different length socket head capscrews and they are assembled on the reduction units. When you buy a gantry kit the motors are usually not attached to the reduction units and require you to take loose the socket head capscrews and attach the motors. Taking it all apart can make assembly a little tougher.
3. We used to install the Z axis motor however we found that the assembly is very long to ship.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 04:28 AM
OK, so I had a day off yesterday and got quite a bit done on the table. I ran around Fresno getting tap and transfer punch on wednesday night. It's always interesting running around an industrial area getting things bought right at 5 pm ><.

First, I unpacked my side rails and their hardware (in a ziploc baggy)...
I found 38 5/16-18 Allen Screws (18 per rail and 2 extra?), 1 metric? Allen screw (it wasnt 5/16-18 ), and 1 bushing. I later determined this "bushing" to be the drill guide, which was a great help. I didnt even use the transfer punch. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-55665-1353080409405.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-55665-1353080409405.jpg)

If people in the future would like to make their own drill guide, the dimensions are 17/64 inside diameter, .5440 outside diameter, and .9490 long. I would recommend making that at least 2 inches long though. It was pretty hard to hold with 2 fingers as I was drilling the holes. My drill has a built in level which helped me a lot with binding against the guide.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-10374-1353079763925.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-10374-1353079763925.jpg)http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-17262-1353079758838.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-17262-1353079758838.jpg)http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-15710-1353079757155.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-15710-1353079757155.jpg)http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-15725-1353079754537.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-15725-1353079754537.jpg)

The allen screws for the rails took a 1/4" hex bit to drive them.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-55495-1353080403325.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-55495-1353080403325.jpg)

I used a 17/64 drill and a 5/16-18 tapered tap. My 1/4" cordless impact drive did a great job of tapping without blisters. I just had to go SLOW. I didnt break a single tap (I bought 3 just in case), but I could see how it would be easy to do so. I also had a shop vac nearby to suck up all the chips from drilling and tapping as I went.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-15726-1353079755475.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-15726-1353079755475.jpg)

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 04:29 AM
Since I had my 2 year old daughter as my only helper… I had to get creative with mounting the rails to the table sides. First, I leveled the table and used the adjustable feet to get it as close as possible. My new 6 and 8 foot levels helped tremendously.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-14984-1353079762215.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-14984-1353079762215.jpg)

Then I browsed the internet to see where on the 111” side the 110” rail should be mounted. From my research, I concluded that it should be flush with the cantilevered end of the table. I hope that was right, if not, they can be moved… just a lot of drilling and tapping.

To mount the rails, I measured to the 8th hole from one side (approximate middle of the rail). It was 58.125”. I transferred that measurement onto the table side. Then I measured the overall width of the rails at ~3.5” with the mounting holes at ~1.75”. I wanted between 5/8 and 7/8 stick up over the table side, so I just measured down 1” on the table side and used a center punch; this would give me ~3/4” stick up of the rail above the table frame.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-15712-1353079759679.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-15712-1353079759679.jpg)

This would be my first drilled and tapped hole. I lifted one side of the rail and got it mounted with the one “middle” screw.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-14295-1353079761350.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-14295-1353079761350.jpg)http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-14315-1353079756298.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-14315-1353079756298.jpg)

Then I put the 8 foot level on the rail and brought the high end of the rail down to a position that was level so I could clamp it with the vise grips.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-8015-1353079757991.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-8015-1353079757991.jpg)http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-15708-1353079760531.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-15708-1353079760531.jpg)http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-15110-1353079753671.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-15110-1353079753671.jpg)

I then proceeded to drill and tap holes in the table frame, using the drill guide, from the center out on the rail; constantly checking for level.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-55830-1353080411123.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-55830-1353080411123.jpg)

Now, onto the second rail: This rail needs to be parallel, level, and square with the first rail. Knowing that my table frame was at very least, square, I just measured 58.125” from the end (which would correspond with the 8th hole in the rail, just like before). For the depth measurement, I used the 6 foot level from the other rail across the table. I shimmed it until it was level. Then I measured 1.75” down from the level. That intersection would be my first drilled and tapped hole for the second rail. I followed the same process on the second rail as I did on the first; constantly checking for level both directions. [/URL] http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-55664-1353080406770.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-55664-1353080406770.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-55486-1353080404201.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-55486-1353080404201.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-55666-1353080402482.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-55666-1353080402482.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-55487-1353080401625.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-55487-1353080401625.jpg)

I found this method to be much easier to handle with just one person than what was mentioned in the instructions. I don’t know if it was the correct way to do it, but I did manage to make everything level, parallel, and square. Using my 8 foot level, I noticed that the table frame had a crown in it. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-53694-1353080410266.jpg[URL=http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-53795-1353080407613.jpg]http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-53795-1353080407613.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-53694-1353080410266.jpg)

It would be a good idea for anyone welding up the frame on their table to keep checking this as they welded it up. I didn’t have the level at the time I was welding. In response, I think I will shim the water pan to keep it close to the level of the rails (which I know is correct), but I have complete faith that the avhc of the z axis will keep everything in line.
OK… major hurdle of the rails COMPLETE!

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 04:31 AM
Now, we needed to put the side plates on. My devoted wife was here to help me from this point forward.
My side plates had the roller bearings already installed and “preloaded”. However, I did not realize they didn’t have the wipers on them until after I had installed them on the rails.
First… importantly… wipe down the inside of the rails and get them as clean as possible. I imagine that any dirt between the rollers and the rail would be a bad thing; not to mention a stray metal shaving from the drilling and tapping! Next, remove the black allen screw that will keep you from putting the side plates on. I think, going off memory, these were 5/32 allen.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-15109-1353079763063.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-15109-1353079763063.jpg)

Anyways… I don’t know what size man you need to be to “bump them on with the palm of your hand”, but I am not that guy! I got them up to the 3rd wheel and bumped them, hit them with a rubber hammer, and then finally kicked them on squarely with my boot. The last option got them onto the rails and rolling. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-55489-1353080398884.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-55489-1353080398884.jpg)

At this point, I installed the wipers onto the side plates. I believe these little screws took a 3/32 allen, but I will double check that. I just tipped the wipers into the rail and then installed them squarely to the side plates. 2 on each side plate. Using this method, you don’t have to worry about damaging the wipers by tearing them on the end of the rail.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-77343-1353080964823.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-77343-1353080964823.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-648-1353080969132.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-648-1353080969132.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-59540-1353080963125.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-59540-1353080963125.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-7752-1353080958883.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-7752-1353080958883.jpg)

OK… side plates ON! Oh wait… did we install them correctly? http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-2659-1353080963984.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-2659-1353080963984.jpg)
At this point we scoured YouTube again; trying to find a video that was panned out enough to see the gantry orientation. Bulltear’s forum was down, so I couldn’t look there. I finally remembered that Matt had posted a pretty good overall shot of a 4x8 table on his sale ad on Pirate4x4. Of course, the side plates were on backwards compared to this stock photo…. Repeat all of the above ><
OK… side plates ON! (again)

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 04:33 AM
Onto the gantry install! We reviewed the stock photo and YouTube again to determine which side the torch goes onto the gantry. Also to determine which way the rack teeth were oriented.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-78045-1353080967426.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-78045-1353080967426.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-76640-1353080961436.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-76640-1353080961436.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-76990-1353080956232.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-76990-1353080956232.jpg)

The instructions tell to install the 45 degree gussets onto the side plates. I don’t know that this is the best way to approach this. It is VERY IMPORTANT to NOT tighten anything on the gantry until everything is finger tight. Trust me, we spent more time unscrewing bolts to line up new pieces than I care to mention.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-72784-1353080966574.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-72784-1353080966574.jpg)
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-78041-1353080968285.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-78041-1353080968285.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-8560-1353080965705.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-8560-1353080965705.jpg)

After putting this damn gantry together more times than I can count…. I would suggest flipping the gantry over on the bench and installing all the nutsert plates into the channel, since they probably fell out during shipping like mine. If you don’t do this first… you are gonna be pissed that you have to take the gantry back off again to install the nutserts for the cable carrier brackets. The carrier bracket takes 3 sets of the nutserts and the 45 degree gussets take 4 sets. You should slide 7 nutserts into each channel in the bottom of the gantry.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-7993-1353082094833.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-7993-1353082094833.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-5211-1353082090378.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-5211-1353082090378.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-5139-1353082079159.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-5139-1353082079159.jpg)

The additional 8 nutserts will be used for the side plate reinforcement brackets.

Once you have the nutserts into the gantry, install the 45 degree gussets, loosely. These need to be able to move enough to line up the 4 bolts to the side plates. THEN lift the gantry up to the side plates and install the 1.75” long 5/16 bolts with nylocs, 4 on each side plate.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-7531-1353080962276.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-7531-1353080962276.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-2786-1353080960564.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-2786-1353080960564.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-67299-1353080959726.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-67299-1353080959726.jpg)

I didn’t do it this way; I wish I had. It seems much more soothing and calming than the 3 steps back to 1 step forward approach that I took.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 04:33 AM
My gantry beam hung over the edge of my side plates about 5/16”, so the reinforcing brackets would not work without shimming. Today I am going to bring home some washers and longer bolts to make this work correctly.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-7039-1353082097442.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-7039-1353082097442.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-4839-1353082095718.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-4839-1353082095718.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-5142-1353082091238.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-5142-1353082091238.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-5058-1353082083544.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-5058-1353082083544.jpg)

I am also going to make some cable carrier brackets. Why aren’t these included? Seems that every other bracket was there....
Since I didn’t have the cable carrier brackets made. We had to stop with the instructions at this point. I looked over at the bench with all the parts and wondered… “hrm, don’t these motors and z axis need to go on?” I scoured the instructions and found nothing about their mounting. The following pictures are just me guessing where things go and bolting them up loosely in case I got it wrong.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-10320-1353082098298.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-10320-1353082098298.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-10604-1353082092136.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-10604-1353082092136.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-9755-1353082085301.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-9755-1353082085301.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-4044-1353082080860.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-4044-1353082080860.jpg)
I was missing to the nyloc nuts for mounting the z axis. I stole some off of the side motors for right now.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-4046-1353082086984.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-4046-1353082086984.jpg)

The magnetic torch mount was pretty straight forward, just lined up the locating dowels and watch your fingers!

The motor for the z axis used the 4 black allen screws, the aluminum standoffs and the shaft connector (which looked like a rubber Lovejoy coupler, if you know what those are).
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-3957-1353082093979.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-3957-1353082093979.jpg)

Loosen the allen binding screws and slip/force it on to the motor and the z axis screw.

Then install the black allen screws and standoffs.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-10420-1353082093094.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-10420-1353082093094.jpg)

The machining looked like the outside holes were a little thin… be careful on torqueing those down. Is there a reason why there couldn’t be an 1/8” more material there?
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-9756-1353082081767.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-9756-1353082081767.jpg)

I really hope my instructions and pictures help others in the future. I will be sending my therapy bills to Matt@ Bulltear! :P

My current status:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-27350-1353092857344.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-27350-1353092857344.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-27368-1353092859050.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-27368-1353092859050.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-27335-1353092858181.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-27335-1353092858181.jpg)

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 04:38 AM
You can absolutely post up. Just a couple quick things we do before items ship and also some info

1. The magnetic plate is set to your Z axis and does not need anything special to setup. The unimount torch mount allows the use of .9-1.5" diameter torches. A 5/16-18 bolt holds in the smaller diameter.
2. The motor mounts are attached one way and there is a left and right. You will note the slot configuration. Attaching the motors can be a little tricky because one side uses a square nut and a slot for retention and the other side uses a flange nut. There are 2 different length socket head capscrews and they are assembled on the reduction units. When you buy a gantry kit the motors are usually not attached to the reduction units and require you to take loose the socket head capscrews and attach the motors. Taking it all apart can make assembly a little tougher.
3. We used to install the Z axis motor however we found that the assembly is very long to ship.

1. I got the magnetic torch mount figured out...
2. & 3. I think the reduction units (belt drives) were already installed on my motor plates... Can you verify from the pics that they are correct? I did not see any flange nuts just the nylocs. The pictures should show what I have.

What do I do about gear contact? I assume the gears should be meshed fully, but is there a specified amount of preload I should put into the gears before fully tightening the nylocs? What should they be torqued to?

Side question: How the hell do you torque the bolts in the 45 degree gusset to 25 ft lbs? I can barely fit a wrench on the inside bolts, let alone a socket.

jeepsr4ever
11-16-2012, 05:05 AM
Gear contact should be listed in the instructional. It looks like we have a page missing from the instructional. You want 5-15lbs of force into the gear rack. Watch as you dont allow two teeth to ride on each other or one side wont drive. Once your all hooked up power the drive unit up and wiggle the side plates and Y axis. You should get no play if you do there is slop in the gear rack or your set screws arent tight on the motor shaft.

jeepsr4ever
11-16-2012, 05:08 AM
1. I got the magnetic torch mount figured out...
2. & 3. I think the reduction units (belt drives) were already installed on my motor plates... Can you verify from the pics that they are correct? Yes they look correct I did not see any flange nuts just the nylocs. Right, then your motor assemblies came fully assembled. The pictures should show what I have.

What do I do about gear contact? I assume the gears should be meshed fully, but is there a specified amount of preload I should put into the gears before fully tightening the nylocs? What should they be torqued to?

Side question: How the hell do you torque the bolts in the 45 degree gusset to 25 ft lbs? I can barely fit a wrench on the inside bolts, let alone a socket."Barely" and "can" are sometimes the same thing :) You will need to tighten those corner bolts with the open end wrench on the bottom bolts (of the gantry) and a socket on one side and a open end wrench on the sideplate upper bolts.

That help?

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 05:13 AM
That help?

That is exactly what I did... but with an open end wrench... feeling for 25 ft lbs is inaccurate, at best.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 06:00 AM
I was just thinking... It's probably a good idea to use Never Sieze or Blue Loctite on all the threaded connections between steel in aluminum. I guess I will have to do that too. I've got previous experience with steel bolts in aluminum heads... not good without thread sealant.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 06:01 AM
Matt:

What size are the nylocs for mounting the z axis... I didnt measure before I left. 9/16 socket to tighten, so I am thinking 3/8 fine thread nuts?

Another question:

The cable carrier came in one piece. At what measurements should I break it to make the x axis and y axis lengths?

jeepsr4ever
11-16-2012, 06:34 AM
3/8-24 nuts. IIRC 44 links on the gantry.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 06:35 AM
3/8-24 nuts. IIRC 44 links on the gantry.

kk ty

jeepsr4ever
11-16-2012, 06:43 AM
:) If you are up against a wall call in we have a couple guys here that know every single bolt on these kits and they build the tables.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 06:46 AM
I ask here on the thread for two reasons:

I have the answer and other people will have it in the future if they have the same problem. Thanks for the quick feedback!

jeepsr4ever
11-16-2012, 07:08 AM
Absolutely, no problem!!

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 07:12 AM
Ok, back from the hardware store on my lunch break... ROFL, that place is always a joke

They dont have stainless locknuts in fine thread, of course. The plated steel ones I got were 47 cents a piece. Tell the crate packing guys I will be sending them an invoice! :P

jeepsr4ever
11-16-2012, 08:12 AM
I will let Joe know!

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 09:39 AM
Got some gantry cable carrier brackets cut out... they arent pretty, but I think theyll work.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-19240-1353105500619.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-19240-1353105500619.jpg)

Need to look tonight and figure out a system for the y axis cable carrier

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-16-2012, 10:28 AM
Got a couple of aluminum pieces cut 3x9 to make aluminum angle for the upper y axis cable carrier mount... All I have is a small scrap of 1/4" aluminum sheet, so I am trying to make do without having to go to the metal supplier in Fresno and get a piece of aluminum angle.

I'll fire up the Dynasty and see if I can weld these pieces together. Ive never done aluminum, and I dont have any filler (also in Fresno... 35 minutes away). Hopefully I can fusion weld it and it will hold. We will see...

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-63557-1353108299838.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-63557-1353108299838.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-69540-1353108300692.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-69540-1353108300692.jpg)

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-18-2012, 03:01 PM
This weekend's progress:

First, I needed to get the side plates shimmed and mounted with the reinforcement brackets. I measured and found that I needed .404 spacing on each side. I could have waited and made some bushings out of pipe, but I was trying to get this done. I put the longer 2" bolts in, a washer under the head of the bolt, a washer on the other side of the side plate, a nut, a washer, the reinforcement bracket, and then another washer and nut. It seemed to space it out enough to clear the bend in the bracket and everything lined up.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-6738-1353286716593.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-6738-1353286716593.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-69914-1353286747132.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-69914-1353286747132.jpg)

BTW... this wrench was the KEY for tightening all the bolts inside that stupid 90 degree gusset. It is a thin profile 1/2" wrench. The fullsize wrenches were all camming off the bolt head when tightened.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-6736-1353286734114.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-6736-1353286734114.jpg)

Installed the carrier pieces I had made previously for the gantry chain:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-8367-1353286728975.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-8367-1353286728975.jpg)

Mocking up the carrier end mounting plate for the gantry chain, I had to remove the x axis motor:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-56707-1353286718450.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-56707-1353286718450.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-4355-1353286738393.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-4355-1353286738393.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-69004-1353286737525.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-69004-1353286737525.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-996-1353286731559.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-996-1353286731559.jpg)

Bolted it together for mockup:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-4140-1353286726369.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-4140-1353286726369.jpg)

Carrier end mounting plate made from .25 aluminum:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-68654-1353286723760.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-68654-1353286723760.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-71632-1353286722902.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-71632-1353286722902.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-6735-1353286748922.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-6735-1353286748922.jpg)

Here is a pic of the topside of the gantry carrier end mounted.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-69003-1353286722009.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-69003-1353286722009.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-54169-1353286729836.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-54169-1353286729836.jpg)

Just a little bit more meat on this motor bracket would have made life SO much easier:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-70182-1353286745387.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-70182-1353286745387.jpg)

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-18-2012, 03:01 PM
Here is a pic of the underside of the x axis motor and where the bolt and clearance required to mount the cable carrier end.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-69779-1353286719361.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-69779-1353286719361.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-48862-1353286720247.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-48862-1353286720247.jpg)

Pic of the completed gantry carrier mounting overall:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-32647-1353286728066.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-32647-1353286728066.jpg)

My first aluminum welding... used it for the Y axis bracket. It definitely isnt pretty, but it should hold this... I think ><
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-71608-1353286741808.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-71608-1353286741808.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-64118-1353286735832.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-64118-1353286735832.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-64789-1353286751509.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-64789-1353286751509.jpg)

Drilling the holes through the side plate for the upper Y axis carrier end bracket:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-60377-1353286733250.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-60377-1353286733250.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-62010-1353286739241.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-62010-1353286739241.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-64381-1353286747985.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-64381-1353286747985.jpg)

Topside of the Y axis carrier end mounting:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-2565-1353286755831.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-2565-1353286755831.jpg)

Here is an underside pic of the Y axis carrier end mounting.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-8472-1353286724603.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-8472-1353286724603.jpg)

This is a mockup pic of the lower mounting of the y axis carrier chain... I still dont know what I am going to do here. I may cut a gusseted bracket out when the table is up and running!
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-2558-1353286732407.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-2558-1353286732407.jpg)

I ran the wire for the motor opposite the carrier chain side through the extruded aluminum channel for the gantry:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-8471-1353286730678.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-8471-1353286730678.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-55700-1353286749766.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-55700-1353286749766.jpg)

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-18-2012, 03:02 PM
Cable carriers opened to accept the wiring and torch lead:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-64120-1353286743486.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-64120-1353286743486.jpg)

Cable carriers with the mechanical torch and wires ran:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-6738-1353286716593.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-6738-1353286716593.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-69776-1353286740961.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-69776-1353286740961.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-55444-1353286744421.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-55444-1353286744421.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-69799-1353286742641.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-69799-1353286742641.jpg)

Some overall pics taken when I was cleaning:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-40279-1353293957617.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-40279-1353293957617.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-48945-1353293961011.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-48945-1353293961011.jpg)

I also managed to do the RS485 port upgrade on the Hypertherm 65.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-43035-1353293959320.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-43035-1353293959320.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-47973-1353293960136.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-47973-1353293960136.jpg)

Matt... when will Bulltear be supporting this new feature? I am sure I will want it running after I get the bugs worked out on the table.

jeepsr4ever
11-19-2012, 01:48 AM
Very soon we are starting to shoot videos this week actually.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-19-2012, 03:37 PM
OK, we actually got our card tonight. I moved the computer out to the garage and started following CandCNC's instructions for Mach3. I have the motors plugged in and they are all locked. I tuned the motors using the parameters you (Matt) sent me in pm.

The program will not come out of reset. I am getting the "External E-stop Request" error. Possible solutions include the EPO jumper is not in place... but it IS. OR the Table I/O card is not connected... but it is, through the grey flat cable.

Any ideas?

BTW it's a real pain the ass that there arent 2 crimp spade terminals included with my gantry kit. I dont have those little connectors at home to connect the limit switches on the z axis, so yet another delay until tomorrow when I can get some. Doing this at 8 pm on a weekday to try to get this table going and... That's just ridiculous.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-19-2012, 05:33 PM
Ok, we fixed the error by reconfiguring the port to match in Mach.... continuing on now...

jeepsr4ever
11-19-2012, 11:20 PM
Auxillary parallel port card may limit your system dramatically. A motherboard mounted parallel port card allows enough system resources for fast dialog between controller and PC.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-20-2012, 02:21 AM
Auxillary parallel port card may limit your system dramatically. A motherboard mounted parallel port card allows enough system resources for fast dialog between controller and PC.

We bought and installed this card to our motherboard:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000510SW/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00

jeepsr4ever
11-20-2012, 02:27 AM
May or may not work well enough for full speed. I know people have had problems with that type of card.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-20-2012, 02:28 AM
Ok, what card should we be using? Could you please post a link to something that is going to work.

I think I am understanding you now that I reread your post... we need a new motherboard?

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-20-2012, 02:37 AM
This is Jason's wife, Katie. I was working with Mach 3 last night to perform the motor tests. We were having some issues with the direction of the x axis, along with some other problems. I was entering in the G code to test the direction of the x axis, and when I changed the polarity, it was still going towards 0,0 and not away, like it should have been.

Is there a trick to entering the G code? I would enter in one line and execute, but after that I would have to exit the gcode function, use the arrow keys, sometimes reset, and even then it only worked 50% of the time.

Is there a different scale for the Z axis? I entered G00 Z1.0 and it moved all the way out, not one inch. The x axis is also off by 1/8" on the scale when moving it with the arrow keys and watching the position. The y seems to be just fine, on all accounts.

jeepsr4ever
11-20-2012, 02:41 AM
That is the problem with auxillary cards and/or Windows 7. You need a motherboard integrated parallel card set. Also when you change the settings you need to reset Mach. From manual data input press the MDI tab in Mach to enter Gcode.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-20-2012, 02:51 AM
That is the problem with auxillary cards and/or Windows 7.

Which problem? Could you please link me a motherboard that you think would be acceptable?

I'll let Katie respond to your other comments.

jeepsr4ever
11-20-2012, 03:58 AM
Can you see the parallel port and serial attached? 239

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-20-2012, 04:16 AM
Yes, I see them. Finding a motherboard with those features to buy is proving to be interesting.... I will keep looking.

jeepsr4ever
11-20-2012, 04:36 AM
The one thing you have to keep in mind is that this type of tool doesnt require huge processing power and it doesnt need much more than a couple hundred dollar PC to run it. It does need the correct resources. Even the Mazak lasers require windows xp 32 bit to run them on. The reason is XP doesnt mess with the parallel resources like the other windows (vista being the worse). Find youself a pentium 4 with XP 32 bit with 1-2 gig of ram and youll be very happy.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-20-2012, 04:38 AM
Did I read somewhere that Bulltear sells computers for these tables?

I found one mobo, but it doesnt have a serial port... just parallel: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=40987&CatId=6981

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-20-2012, 04:43 AM
The one thing you have to keep in mind is that this type of tool doesnt require huge processing power and it doesnt need much more than a couple hundred dollar PC to run it. It does need the correct resources. Even the Mazak lasers require windows xp 32 bit to run them on. The reason is XP doesnt mess with the parallel resources like the other windows (vista being the worse). Find youself a pentium 4 with XP 32 bit with 1-2 gig of ram and youll be very happy.

Is this acceptable?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7122665&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCV1-CjCE&gclid=CLegkLWM3rMCFYF7Qgod_RIAQg

Is Windows XP Professional 32 or 64 bit?

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-20-2012, 04:45 AM
Found a whole list of XP desktops on tiger... doesnt seem to be any that arent refurbs tho... scary

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=5139&name=Refurbished-Windows-XP-PCs&

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-20-2012, 04:48 AM
This one actually lists 32 bit, specifically...

I sure dont like reading the reviews on these things though.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5180149&CatId=5139

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-20-2012, 04:54 AM
I just called a local computer repair shop; I know the owner. He's looking into getting something for me locally. It's just a major pita with Newegg and TigerDirect when their stuff doesnt work out of the box.

cjheap
11-27-2012, 02:52 PM
I picked up a surplus Panasonic Toughbook CF28 ( the one the cops use in their cars) . Water proof, shock proof, dust proof and it even has touchscreen. Came with xp pro .

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-27-2012, 05:44 PM
We got a computer put together, so that isn't a problem anymore. Took an old server from work and combined it with an xp computer we had.

We're now having an issue with the x and a axes seizing when we run them with G code (which is now working fine, btw). They run fine and for the predetermined distance some of the time. Other times, however, the motors themselves stop turning, the sound of them continues to run, and the x axis reads as though it's traveled the full distance. All of the gears are meshing the track, the set screws have been tightened and the belts have been checked. Jason will be posting a video of it next post. Thanks.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-27-2012, 06:00 PM
Here is a video of the x axis stall and the horrendous noise it makes ><

http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-56367-1354085901697.mp4

jeepsr4ever
11-28-2012, 12:26 AM
What is your motor tuning set to for X? Have you slaved your A axis? Post up your velocity as well.

Sbkats
11-28-2012, 04:08 AM
Yes we slaved the a axis already. We set the specs to what you gave Jason. Off the top of my head I think it was 2345.76/800 (which gets auto-reset to 799.8 every time)/40.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-28-2012, 04:19 AM
We set the motor tuning as follows:

X,Y and A are

2345.76 steps per
40 Accel
800 velocity

Z axis
12000 steps per
20 Accel
90 velocity

The same as you instructed me...

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-28-2012, 04:24 AM
A separate question I had...

Were there supposed to be limit switches included for the z axis?

Like this? http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19193-Limit-and-Home-switches

After reading that instructional...

Where do the two wires that I already have connect in the C&CNC controller box? I put them on the Z home spades, but now I am thinking that was incorrect? Are those wires for the Initial Height Sensor? If so, where should they be connected?

jeepsr4ever
11-28-2012, 05:58 AM
Yes those get connected ot the Z axis home. Also there should have been extra wire and some extra switches for limits. Not sure what is happening with your axis movement but I would run a port test from your C/Mach3 directory.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-28-2012, 06:21 AM
There weren't any additional limit switches or wire. Can I get those sent?

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-28-2012, 06:26 AM
Not sure what is happening with your axis movement but I would run a port test from your C/Mach3 directory.

I found a "Driver Test" under that directory, but nothing labeled "port test", what am I looking for, specifically?

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-28-2012, 06:39 AM
I also mentioned before that the preload on the gantry (x axis) bearings seemed really high (I really did have to KICK them onto the rails). The side plates were significantly harder to put on than the y axis (I bumped it on with the palm of my hand). Would that have an effect on these motors? (X and A)

jeepsr4ever
11-28-2012, 07:45 AM
You may need to take them off and back off the pre-load. That would definately cause that issue. With the gears not engauged you should be able to push the gantry without much effort.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-28-2012, 07:49 AM
No, it takes both of us to push the gantry. I will take the damn thing apart... ugh.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-28-2012, 09:24 AM
Ok, got them adjusted properly. Bulltear Gantry Teardown Pit Crew here I come! Im really tired of taking that damn thing apart.

Matt, could you please explain what you meant by the Port Test?

We will try the g-code motion tests tonight and see if everything is ok, but I'd like to be able to test the ports if it isnt.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-28-2012, 09:25 AM
As an fyi...

I had to back the spanners off about 3/16's of a turn to get them to just "bump" on with my palm. You might wanna set up some rails for the assembly guys to test how hard it is to put the damn things on the rail.

jeepsr4ever
11-28-2012, 09:40 AM
Gantry kits always take more effort to build than a complete table. The adjustable preload allows you to overload or even underload the trucks. They should have had the correct load when they were shipped. I did catch a guy here overloading a set and let him know it isnt acceptable. I am sorry you had to adjust them! We have rail hard mounted to set preload here.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-28-2012, 10:01 AM
Ok, I thought you would probably have a hard mounted rail to test...

Port testing procedure?

Shipping the limit switches and wire?

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-28-2012, 04:36 PM
Exciting Update:

We have smooth movement from the x axis! Everything is responding properly to g code inputs now. Tomorrow the water pan should be bent up and ready for pickup. Then I can weld it up and put the slats and holders in. Then maybe some cutting?!

What am I missing Matt? What should we start with as far as cutting goes?

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-29-2012, 08:59 AM
Can I run the table without those limit switches?

How do I test the ports?

What is next?

jeepsr4ever
11-29-2012, 09:10 AM
You can start cutting as long as your Z home is responding. To check this go to diagnostics and push up on the Z axis and see if the Z axis home light comes on.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-30-2012, 02:53 AM
Well, I got the water pan picked up last night...
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_15-19-08_333.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_15-19-08_333.jpg)

Got it placed with the forklift:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_17-28-38_23.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_17-28-38_23.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_17-47-13_176.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_17-47-13_176.jpg)

Got it welded up...
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_17-47-37_637.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_17-47-37_637.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_17-47-43_847.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_17-47-43_847.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_18-57-00_961.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_18-57-00_961.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_18-57-09_777.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_18-57-09_777.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_18-57-21_54.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_18-57-21_54.jpg)

and got the slats in...
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_17-54-17_285.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_17-54-17_285.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_17-54-26_344.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_17-54-26_344.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_21-34-03_583.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_21-34-03_583.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_2012-11-29_21-33-40_688.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=2012-11-29_21-33-40_688.jpg)

I oriented the slats on the x axis to make it easier to slide the plates onto the table. I also made the water pan 5" deep to allow me to submerged plates and keep the mess contained... (hopefully) I didnt cut anything on the holders or slats, so I can always go back to the stock orientation if this doesnt work.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-30-2012, 02:55 AM
I am planning to install 2- 2" NPT bungs for drains... any opinions on where they should go?

jeepsr4ever
11-30-2012, 02:59 AM
Great job! Yes put one in the front and back just inside the frame so you can drain from both sides.

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-30-2012, 03:02 AM
Thanks Matt...

Did you get a chance to send those limit switches out?

jeepsr4ever
11-30-2012, 03:02 AM
Yes

Apocalypse Fabrication
11-30-2012, 03:06 AM
Yes

Thank you very much, sir. :rabbit:

jeepsr4ever
11-30-2012, 03:47 AM
Not a problem I will have to go through checklists to see how it was missed. Also the Z axis limit and Mag-lok switches are optional so you do not have to have them on to allow cutting.

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-17-2012, 02:48 AM
Ok, sorry for the lack of progress and updates. Life has been happening and we just havent had a chance to work on this.

Anyways, I got a chance to put a couple more hours into it yesterday.

I made some extensions for the forks on my forklift. They are light duty, but I didnt want to lug around massive extensions when the capacity of the forklift is only 2500# and I doubt that I will be working with any full sheets of material over 1/4". I built them using 1.75" 1/8" wall HREW tubing and 2x5x.25 rectangular tubing pieces. Pretty simple. I bent them with my tubing bender so they wouldnt have any sharp edges to hit the sheets. I hope the round tubing profile will also help to minimize scratching when loading sheets.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-40205-1355709068715.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-40205-1355709068715.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-40211-1355709064486.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-40211-1355709064486.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-31396-1355709059314.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-31396-1355709059314.jpg)

I removed the water pan from the table, flipped it, cut holes for the pipe flanges with the circle attachment on my hypertherm, and welded them in with the tig.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-39035-1355709061874.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-39035-1355709061874.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-18841-1355709063588.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-18841-1355709063588.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-39477-1355709072154.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-39477-1355709072154.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-2560-1355709073938.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-2560-1355709073938.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-35984-1355709079143.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-35984-1355709079143.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-35982-1355709054990.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-35982-1355709054990.jpg)

I filled the pan with water and reinstalled the slats. It's been 16 hours now and no drips, so I must have done something right!
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-34818-1355709078236.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-34818-1355709078236.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-40207-1355709071307.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-40207-1355709071307.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-37607-1355709069571.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-37607-1355709069571.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-34669-1355709056686.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-34669-1355709056686.jpg)

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-18-2012, 03:03 AM
Not a problem I will have to go through checklists to see how it was missed. Also the Z axis limit and Mag-lok switches are optional so you do not have to have them on to allow cutting.

So... did you send those limit switches by mule train? I haven't received anything, still.

jeepsr4ever
12-18-2012, 06:58 AM
Yes weeks ago

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-18-2012, 07:35 AM
Do you have a tracking# and address where you sent it? I'd like to track the package down down.

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-29-2012, 12:57 PM
Well, we got some vacation at the end of the year, so I wanted to work on getting the cnc table cutting. Good news, we got it cutting. Bad news, there are a few issues... as always.

1. The THC Light is blinking green when activated from the Mach3 screen (does this mean it is working or should it be solid green?)

2. Our "stored settings" button on the Mach3 screen does not bring any menu up for saved settings or even the current thc settings.

3. We changed our preset voltage from 140 to 137, as per the hypertherm manual, on the second cut. However, as soon as it started cutting it reverted right back to 140 volts, ignoring our change.

4. A general question... what amperage should I set the hypertherm unit to when cutting? I was using 45 amps, since I was using 45 amp consumables, but I have no idea if that was right.

5. When will we receive those limit swiches?

6. We are getting about 1/16" of taper on the edges of the cuts on .25 mild steel. That seems excessive to me...

These pics are of the cuts... all cut to hypertherm's book specs for 45 amp shielded consumables on a hypertherm 65 with machine torch:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-52821-1356830889128.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-52821-1356830889128.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-76543-1356830886989.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-76543-1356830886989.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-75760-1356830889974.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-75760-1356830889974.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-61480-1356830891682.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-61480-1356830891682.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-42883-1356830886164.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-42883-1356830886164.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-50386-1356831355578.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-50386-1356831355578.jpg)

more pictures at the links...

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-30-2012, 10:44 AM
After some further work with the table today:

1. Still blinking
2. We got the stored settings button to work when Katie installed the Smart Kut file from the disk. I downloaded a txt file from CandCNC.com that had a bunch of settings files for hyperterm machines.
3. The preset voltage just needed the "enter" button hit to make it stay at 137.
4 & 5.... same
6. I rethought this last night and remembered the arc being VERY visible while cutting, which seemed wrong... so this morning I decided to try cutting with the THC off. The result was a very nicely cut shape, with hardly any dross or taper at all. SO... I stopped the programs mid cut with the thc on (blinking) and off. With the THC on... I measured the torch height at .430" (almost 7/16"!!!!!!) and without the thc it was .065" (a lil more than 1/16"). That difference is where the taper and dross came from. I think Ive come to the conclusion that our THC is not working. Katie and I sent an email to the CandCNC email group to see if we can get some help. I may call Tom tomorrow if I dont hear from the list.

.430 cut height: http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-4035-1356912006748.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-4035-1356912006748.jpg)
Taper of no THC Cut: http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-56700-1356912008493.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-56700-1356912008493.jpg) No THC Cut Height: http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-4466-1356912011033.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-4466-1356912011033.jpg)
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-51225-1356912005002.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-51225-1356912005002.jpg) Condition of piece with no THC immediately after cutting (ignore the chinga in the inside, that was from repositioning the piece after stopping the cut) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/th_photobucket-37892-1356912004081.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC%20Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-37892-1356912004081.jpg)

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-30-2012, 10:48 AM
Here is the message we posted to the CandCNC yahoo group:


First:
We are running a Bulltear 4x8 gantry kit with a Hypertherm 65 w/ a mechanized
torch and CPC port connection. The CandCNC system is a ESPII BladeRunner with
the DTHCII UBOB 3. We bought this system from Bulltear October 2012. The
computer running the system is a Windows XP Home Edition, P4 2.26 ghz 1 gb ram
with mobo mounted cpc and parallel ports. No other programs are running while
we try to cut, only Mach3 version R3.042.029 under the BladeRunnerAIO-DTHC-UBOB3
profile.

We're having some communication issues with our dthc module. We put it in test
mode via the power supply unit however the voltage dro is not changing. The up
light flashes, then the arc ok, then the up, in a series of five then the same
with the down, with no change to the voltage dro itself. We tried to recalibrate
the card but the voltage dro isn't responding (it reads 0 volts, all the time,
even while cutting).

I've activated all of the plugins and installed all of the additional files.

In the candcnc comm plugin the settings are to what the instructions say. The
second tab in the config box, however, isn't reading that we have a power
supply. "No power supply detected" The last error description reads "current
over limit".

We're able to cut, so Mach is communicating with the motors, but the THC isn't
functioning. When we cut with the THC ON (blinking), we measured the cut height
at .430" when the gcode is stopped mid cut. When we cut without the THC on, we
measured the cut height at .065", when stopped mid cut.

These issues have been observed when using the MP1000-THC post processor in
Sheetcam. We are receiving a fault error of "Bad character usedLine 38" when
using the MP3000-DTHC-SmlArcFix#2 post processor. Line38 of our gcode is:
M05*ONPENUP()*

We are working on this on a sunday, but we would appreciate any help as soon as
possible, since we dont get to work on the table during normal business hours.

Jason and Katie Lister

jeepsr4ever
12-30-2012, 12:35 PM
You may need to re-install Mach 3 because in test mode it should be showing tip volts. It sounds like a ccc plugin is not enabled or you have a conflicting plugin enabled.

jeepsr4ever
12-31-2012, 03:17 AM
Are you sure you have a card in your plasma cutter giving you tip volts.

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-31-2012, 03:50 AM
I worked on this late last night... We have two db9 ports on the mobo. I switched the cable into the other port and now the volts dro is reading correctly and the power supply info is coming up correctly on the lower right of the mach gui. Also. The test button on the espii box is going thru the right test when pushed.

However. The thc is still not reacting correctly. It was at 24 volts running when the preset was asking for137 volts. The actual cut height looked like it was at. 430 again... way high. Ideas?

I do have a fault error listed when I load the gcode "plasma 1/4" mild steel".... which references this line: N0080 M06 T2 F48 (plasma 1/4" mild steel)

jeepsr4ever
12-31-2012, 03:52 AM
Your division is incorrect between your PWM box and your divider board in the plasma.

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-31-2012, 03:55 AM
Ok.. I will do that when get back home.

Could you please adress my other questions I've asked in the last few posts?

jeepsr4ever
12-31-2012, 04:01 AM
Well, we got some vacation at the end of the year, so I wanted to work on getting the cnc table cutting. Good news, we got it cutting. Bad news, there are a few issues... as always.

1. The THC Light is blinking green when activated from the Mach3 screen (does this mean it is working or should it be solid green?)
Blinking means on

2. Our "stored settings" button on the Mach3 screen does not bring any menu up for saved settings or even the current thc settings.

Post up a pic of your screen
3. We changed our preset voltage from 140 to 137, as per the hypertherm manual, on the second cut. However, as soon as it started cutting it reverted right back to 140 volts, ignoring our change.

Your cut profile selected may default your tip voltage. Did you press "send"?

4. A general question... what amperage should I set the hypertherm unit to when cutting? I was using 45 amps, since I was using 45 amp consumables, but I have no idea if that was right.

25-45amps...no higher

5. When will we receive those limit swiches?

Not sure I couldnt find a shipping tag. When we reopen on wednesay I will look again if not send you some more..third set it would be according to the paperwork. Might be the first in your hands though and I am not sure how that happened but we will get you those.

6. We are getting about 1/16" of taper on the edges of the cuts on .25 mild steel. That seems excessive to me...

Reverse your direction in sheetcam....best cut is on the right side of the toolpath because of the way the air swirls. Height also has alot to do with it.

These pics are of the cuts... all cut to hypertherm's book specs for 45 amp shielded consumables on a hypertherm 65 with machine torch:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/th_photobucket-52821-1356830889128.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-52821-1356830889128.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/th_photobucket-76543-1356830886989.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-76543-1356830886989.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/th_photobucket-75760-1356830889974.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-75760-1356830889974.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/th_photobucket-61480-1356830891682.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-61480-1356830891682.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/th_photobucket-42883-1356830886164.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-42883-1356830886164.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/th_photobucket-50386-1356831355578.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/slprlx/CNC Table/?action=view&current=photobucket-50386-1356831355578.jpg)

more pictures at the links...


Does that answer everything?

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-31-2012, 04:08 AM
Yes... thank you very much.

Any ideas on the fault error?

I will send you a pm.with a different shipping address for the switches.

jeepsr4ever
12-31-2012, 06:08 AM
Technically it is not a fault

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-31-2012, 07:23 AM
Ok, I wont worry about that fault thing then. Thanks

Next set of problems...

Yes, the voltage divider was set incorrectly. I have both the pwm module and the hypertherm set to 20:1 now.

However, when I run the voltage test calibration by pushing the button in the pwm module... I am not getting it to read 126 volts. It reads 171-2 instead on the dro. I tried to adjust the white pot in the esp2 box, but it maxed out with only giving me 166 volts minimum, so I put it back where it was originally.

We went ahead and tried to make some test cuts anyway:

The torch is now diving HARD into the plate. The tip volts are preset to 137 and we have seen spikes as high as 180. I have the ground clamp for the plasma cutter actually laying right next to the torch and the plate has been cleaned with a wire wheel (thinking this may be a ground issue). The diving is so violent that it has broken the mag mount free a couple times now. Ideas?

jeepsr4ever
12-31-2012, 07:30 AM
You adjusted the pot? uh oh.. That may be a direct call to CandCNC on wednesday now. They set that up specifically per card and calibrated per card. You may need to send it in now if you want it calibrated. User adjustment is on the jumper side only. Stop and get on CandCNC's support site (email list)

Apocalypse Fabrication
12-31-2012, 07:37 AM
Im already on the email list, hence the posted message I made above to the CandCNC group, and Tom instructed me via that email above to adjust the pot.

I dont understand what you mean by "jumper side only" can you clarify that? Is there another way to adjust the voltage to 126?

jeepsr4ever
12-31-2012, 08:48 AM
I dont understand why he would want you to adjust the pot unless they *just changed their circuit boards in the PWM boxes. Or are you saying in the control box? In almost 4 years we have never seen them tell a customer that.

Also how are you trying to adjust the voltage and why? Are you trying to do this on the fly with the machine cutting? Are you using shielded tips? What consumables are you using? That can explain dive when THC kicks on. This may mean your shield cover is too long and your distance from tip to material is too far giving you higher than normal voltage and when it comes down it drags the shield.

Apocalypse Fabrication
01-01-2013, 01:00 PM
An update for everyone...

Matt arent you a member of the CandCNC yahoo group? I could have sworn I saw you post there, if so, you should be able to see the communications that Tom and I have had on there.

The problem, we deduced with Tom's help, is that we have stray voltage being pumped into the PWM module or THC card. We found that to be true because we disconnected the power and CPC connector to the plasma cutter and the cat 5e cable going to the PWM from the THC card in the ESP2 power supply. This condition resulted in 0 volts being displayed on the Mach3 GUI. BUT... as soon as we connected the Cat 5E cable back to the PWM... we had 48 volts showing on the Mach3 voltage DRO. This number should be 0 when sitting idle.

He is going to issue an RMA for us and we are going to send the card and PWM module in for service. Hopefully, that fix will get us up and running.

jeepsr4ever
01-01-2013, 01:08 PM
Hmm Sorry for your trouble but I can tell you once things are up and running youre good to go. Definately a subscriber and it goes to the company vault email like the ones from the sheetcam group and others. I am glad you were able to figure it out. Stray voltage most likely means a break in a pcb card or a short.

Apocalypse Fabrication
01-10-2013, 05:17 AM
Matt:

Sorry, Ive been slammed with work, but Katie said that we received the limit switches. Thank you

Jason

Apocalypse Fabrication
02-04-2013, 08:53 AM
Well... last night we finally got the DTHC working correctly and the cut quality was very nice. Tonight we are going to try some larger parts and thinner stock.

Apocalypse Fabrication
02-08-2013, 05:45 AM
The machine is cutting really well. Thom from CandCNC has been a big help.

Can we input a g-code in Mach3 to be able to just do a straight line cut? (like when I want to cut a sheet off?)

jeepsr4ever
02-08-2013, 07:05 AM
Sure it would read like G1 Y48. F30.

G1 is feed mode
Y48. is the length you want to cut (in Y axis from where you are..make sure you zero Y where you start)
F30. is feedrate 30 inches per minute (remember the period after 30 or it may default to .03 ipm) and also remember to fire your torch before pressing your enter key

These are entered at the MDI input line and are executed immediately after pressing enter.

Apocalypse Fabrication
02-08-2013, 07:07 AM
Thanks Matt

Apocalypse Fabrication
02-11-2013, 02:46 AM
Sure it would read like G1 Y48. F30.

G1 is feed mode
Y48. is the length you want to cut (in Y axis from where you are..make sure you zero Y where you start)
F30. is feedrate 30 inches per minute (remember the period after 30 or it may default to .03 ipm) and also remember to fire your torch before pressing your enter key

These are entered at the MDI input line and are executed immediately after pressing enter.

This was definitely harder than I thought it would be. Setting the z axis to the right height was challenging; it was dragging the plate. Also... dont switch over to the machine window when cutting... it pauses the cut ><.

I think I may just make a sheetcam file for ripping sheets and just load it when needed.

Apocalypse Fabrication
02-11-2013, 03:11 AM
In other news...

We cut our first products for sale. I think we bit off a bit more than we could chew at first, but we worked through it. First item we went to cut on 16 gauge was pretty/very detailed and the x axis found it a perfect time to stall (just like it used to when the bearings were too tight). I checked the gear set screws and they were all tight (this is a check I do every time I operate the machine now). After scrapping the first design cut; I resolved myself to finding out what was causing the x axis to stall.

I found that it would bind/stall even if I jogged the machine at 100% speed. I found that reducing the max velocity from 799.8 to 639.8 it would travel freely and not bind/stall anymore. I have no idea why it's binding/stalling, but I think I can live with the reduction in speed.

I also found, later, that cutting at 250 ipm (book specs on 16 gauge) that I get very finely jagged cuts... you can see the torch shaking as it turns direction at this speed. I think I will just use the 150 ipm cut speed charts from hypertherm, which were made for torchmate machines. Apparently, my machine cant handle the faster speeds either. Yes, I have double checked all the fasteners on the gantry for proper tightness.

I need to install the X and Y home switches so that I can start over on a cut when it invariably effs up. When installing the x axis home switch do I wire the a axis separately or do I link them together?

I was also having a problem with the consumable stuck error. It seems when it tried to pierce next to an existing pierce that it would pick up the little bit of dross from that previous pierce and stick the torch... leading to all sorts of bad things.

jeepsr4ever
02-11-2013, 03:59 AM
In other news...

We cut our first products for sale. I think we bit off a bit more than we could chew at first, but we worked through it. First item we went to cut on 16 gauge was pretty/very detailed and the x axis found it a perfect time to stall (just like it used to when the bearings were too tight). I checked the gear set screws and they were all tight (this is a check I do every time I operate the machine now). After scrapping the first design cut; I resolved myself to finding out what was causing the x axis to stall.

I found that it would bind/stall even if I jogged the machine at 100% speed. I found that reducing the max velocity from 799.8 to 639.8 it would travel freely and not bind/stall anymore. I have no idea why it's binding/stalling, but I think I can live with the reduction in speed.

I also found, later, that cutting at 250 ipm (book specs on 16 gauge) that I get very finely jagged cuts... you can see the torch shaking as it turns direction at this speed. I think I will just use the 150 ipm cut speed charts from hypertherm, which were made for torchmate machines. Apparently, my machine cant handle the faster speeds either. Yes, I have double checked all the fasteners on the gantry for proper tightness.

I need to install the X and Y home switches so that I can start over on a cut when it invariably effs up. When installing the x axis home switch do I wire the a axis separately or do I link them together?

I was also having a problem with the consumable stuck error. It seems when it tried to pierce next to an existing pierce that it would pick up the little bit of dross from that previous pierce and stick the torch... leading to all sorts of bad things.

Binding and stalling has alot to do with the amount of force applied to keep the gear into the rack. You can drop your speed and also drop your accel rates to 35 if you need to. If you are getting jagged cuts and the torch is tipping check to see if you have preload on your Y axis truck. You can also check to see if the Mag-Lock plate has play and needs to have the two set screw brought out a little. In gantry kit form your Y axis truck may need to be adjusted out. You dont need home switches it rememebrs where it is when you have an issue. You need to learn how to use the "run from here" in Mach 3. Definately takes some playing with. If you are getting things stuck to your consumables your piercing too low. Also if your torch is dragging your tip volts are too low.

Apocalypse Fabrication
02-11-2013, 04:24 AM
Ok, I will check the y axis truck.

I understand how Mach works with the error recovery now.... I watched the Arclight video series, which was super helpful.

When installing the x axis home switch do I wire the a axis separately or do I link them together? This is the method used for squaring the gantry right?

jeepsr4ever
02-11-2013, 06:54 AM
You shouldnt need a home switch. Are you trying to install one for squaring the gantry? The better method (which you only have to do once) is to measure from the ends with a tape.

Apocalypse Fabrication
02-11-2013, 06:59 AM
I am trying to install the home switches so I can follow this procedure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T-LZBHkHPQg

The only question I had about that was the thing about separating the a axis or not, since it's slaved.

I dont like using only a part zero, because what if the sheet shifts or what if I cant get the torch back EXACTLY where I started 0,0?

jeepsr4ever
02-11-2013, 08:34 AM
That procedure doesnt allow much of anything if your sheet shifts. What the author doesnt understand is what is the fastest way to get back to exactly where I was when the torch had a problem. What your asking is something that can be done but we do not support or suggest it. If you stop in the middle of the cut and the G code has not completed its path a ref point will not help you. You will need to find the line where the path started, start from there and then turn your torch on just before it gets to that point. Using Ref is how someone would do it when they dont fully grasp the situation of having an error. Your much better off not having those switches used as a REF point. You can do it as you see fit but I will tell you that after a few times of having to use it for ..whatever, you will not use them again. This is coming from several years of cutting with Mach 3.

Apocalypse Fabrication
03-12-2013, 07:17 AM
Hey Matt:

Where can I get some more of the nutserts for the gantry? I stripped a few and I want to add a couple spines to reduce flex during cutting.

Thanks

Jason

jeepsr4ever
03-12-2013, 09:08 AM
Let me know what you want I will send you a few

Apocalypse Fabrication
03-12-2013, 09:38 AM
I was going to order about 24 of them. I dont expect Bulltear to just give them to me. I am the one that obviously stripped them out. If I could get a part# and a supplier; I would be more than happy. I have been browsing the 8020 site and the array of options is making my head spin.


We are getting vibrations during x axis moves when the torch is located in the middle of the y axis gantry. It's giving us jagged cut edges. However, when the torch is near either end of the gantry; it cuts fine. Tomorrow I am going to fasten the table into the concrete slab of the garage in an effort to strengthen it up. If that doesnt work, I want to add some "spines" to strengthen up the y axis, using t nuts to fasten them on.

Apocalypse Fabrication
03-12-2013, 09:57 AM
I dont have the gantry in front of me to measure, but is it 3030 series? Will these studs work?

http://www.amazon.com/80-20-Inc-Series-Drop-In/dp/B006ZCLONO/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1363128860&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=80%2F20+t+studs+5%2F16-18

I think those would be way easier for my application, since I wouldnt have to unbolt the whole gantry to install more t nuts.

Thanks

jeepsr4ever
03-12-2013, 02:56 PM
I will send some for you no problem. If your getting vibes its not from flex.

Apocalypse Fabrication
03-12-2013, 03:06 PM
Thanks Matt

What's your theory on the condition? I am wondering why it vibrates in the middle of the y axis, but not on the edges. Obviously, I will know more after I get it bolted down.

jeepsr4ever
03-13-2013, 01:16 AM
Get it bolted up first. Sometimes its the Mag-lok not being stiff and that is easy to adjust by the two bottom 1/4-20 bolts and/or the two 90 degree screws for the back of the torch plate. You should not get flex in the middle of the gantry. You may also get some flex from the Y axis truck if it isnt adjusted to a hard preload. We are setting Y axis trucks before they go out the door now so gantry kits users wont have to adjust them. It is a challenge to explain that the truck needs enough preload to be hard to move before installing the beefy Z axis. After installing the Z axis the truck relaxes its preload some but stiffens the movement. I would start with bolting the gantry together properly before making any adjustments.

Apocalypse Fabrication
03-13-2013, 03:10 AM
The y axis truck was preloaded from the factory on my kit and felt like it was set properly upon install.

I am bolting the table frame to the floor. The gantry has been bolted together, properly, quite a few times now. I am familiar with the preload procedures, since if you remember, I had to reset my x axis trucks.

Apocalypse Fabrication
03-29-2013, 02:32 AM
The table was bolted to the floor and I preloaded the y axis truck some more. The cut quality got much worse on the last cut we did. I think I will back the truck back off again and maybe raise the THC dampening rate. Frustrating as always.

jeepsr4ever
03-29-2013, 02:36 AM
What are you trying to cut, thickness? Speed, amperage and tip volts please. Also what about your torch are you using a sheilded cap or the deflector ring?

Apocalypse Fabrication
03-29-2013, 02:38 AM
Hypertherm 65 with Full size machine torch

Finecut Consumables
150 ipm cut speed
.06 cut height, with THC on
75 torch volts
40 amps
Deflector ring, since I am pretty sure you cant use the shield on FineCut.
16 gauge CRS

We are getting sporadic jagged cuts. Sometimes it cuts perfectly, but the next letter will be jagged. Sorry I dont have any pics at this time. I can have Katie post some if needed.

jeepsr4ever
03-29-2013, 02:41 AM
Oh also make sure your THC rate is no more than 20. At 30 it will oscillate when it turns THC back on after locking it out for the corner movement

Apocalypse Fabrication
03-29-2013, 02:43 AM
Oh also make sure your THC rate is no more than 20. At 30 it will oscillate when it turns THC back on after locking it out for the corner movement

I will check tonight... thanks

jeepsr4ever
03-29-2013, 02:48 AM
Also keep in mind if you get to an edge sometimes the air coming out of the tip will wiggle the material to make it look like a jagged cut. You could try dropping your amperage and cutting slower to see if there is a change. But at 75 tip volts something is wrong as you should be well over 120 tip volts. You probly have the division wrong in your plasma cutter and PWM box. Do you know how to check? The plasma cutters usually ship at 50-1 ratio and the PWM boxes can go out either 7-1 or 20-1 so that would explain the tip voltage issue. To check uscrew the 4 screws from the bottom of the black box and take the cap off and not where the jumper is sitting. There are instructions on your support disk for that as well. Make sure the CPC card in your Hypertherm and the black box are using the same division. You may just have to move the jumper. The best division is 20-1 this gives the most accurate THC next to Hypertherms Hydef. Make sure the CPC in the plasma cutter is set to 20-1 and the PWM is set to 20-1.

jeepsr4ever
03-29-2013, 02:51 AM
If you need to please call in if your stuck. 1-651-257-7917 someone here will walk you through it.

Apocalypse Fabrication
03-29-2013, 02:55 AM
But at 75 tip volts something is wrong as you should be well over 120 tip volts.


75 is the voltage spec given by hypertherm for their low speed mild steel cut charts. Dont worry about the voltage divider, it's been correct for months... at 20:1 in both.

jeepsr4ever
03-29-2013, 03:02 AM
Ah yes the low speed cut chart. We need to find out if its the Z axuis oscillating or where the wiggle is.

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