View Full Version : WALT'S 1968 AMC AMX
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401, ELDLEBROCK AIRGAP MANIFOLD, CLOSE RATIO 4 SPEED,GEARVENDER,3:54 REAR END. ON DYNO IT PUT OUT 341.7 HP AND 385 TQ AT THE REAR WHEELS. TRYING TO GET THE SUPERCHARGER RUNNING THIS WINTER.
spike
01-02-2013, 12:28 PM
Any more pictures of supercharger install along with fitment issues. I am in process of install on 68 rebel wagon. Fits in car really well just a few issues but easy to overcome. What combination is engine going to be??
Thanks Goops
jeepsr4ever
01-03-2013, 12:17 AM
Walt contacted us initially about a bolt hole that was blocked. We looked at the models and confirmed we needed to add more clearance for the power steering in 2 areas and for a bolt hole. There is a 2nd gen bracket system available at the end of this month if your interested we will swap for your set for free. Just a few subtle changes that made a huge difference. For instance now you can add the power steering after the rest is assembled. I plan on doing a writeup as soon as our big machines are back up and running so we can have brackets here to do a writeup on. A 3 phase ripple came through the shop and did 10K worth of damage to our 2 biggest machines. Right when we had tons of works to put through them. So we are trying to get the work on the little cnc mills but they are clogged with work.
I love that car though Walt!
390spirit
01-04-2013, 12:44 AM
ok i haven't got to the install yet as i was thinking of selling and going turbo. i have since changed my mind. what is this talk of a hole being blocked and what needs to be done to correct it?
i am getting to this project very soon and would like it to be as painless as possable!
Matt, what needs to be sent back to be swapped out for the 2nd gen brackets?
thanks Norm
jeepsr4ever
01-04-2013, 02:26 AM
Yours doesnt block the hole Norm
jeepsr4ever
01-05-2013, 10:08 AM
When the supercharger is clocked at the 10:30 clocking it wont hit any of the spacers. Pics look great!
Thank you I want it shooting up,thru elbow thru radiator support,thru intercooler out the other side thru radiator support to carb. Hope I have hood clearance, if not make space in the inter fender.
390spirit
01-06-2013, 02:51 AM
looks good Walt keep the pictures coming
Thank you,mabe get in the car this week.
390spirit
01-07-2013, 01:46 AM
Walt, what power steering pump did you use?
vehicle, year, engine?
i still need to get that.
Norm
Hi Norm I must have tosed the box ,but I think it fits a big block chevy out of a 78 to 80 pickup.I gave Mat the number. Walt
Norm I think its a 68 to 80 chevy bigblock.
390spirit
01-08-2013, 12:28 AM
ok, i've got a 89 chevy with a 454 but the pump has a seperate resevoir up higher in the system, i'll check the earlier years.
Thanks again Walt
Norm
Norm I think that might be a better way, to use that remote tank pump, I did not want to put that much $ for one. On the plus side you would half to cut that left [finger] off on the back compressor bracket like did. Walt
260261262 Can not find a belt that I like this one is ok but addjustment bolt is all the tight. Might relocate the idle pully on alternater bracket. Happy with intercooler mounting.
jeepsr4ever
01-08-2013, 08:54 AM
Walt here are the belt sizes
K060883 88.43 effective length
K060882 88.3 effective length
K060878 87.82 effective length
K060876 87.57 effective length
K060875 87.53 effective lenght
K060874 87.34 effective length
K060871 87.03 effective length
These will matter if you dont have a stock vortech pulley
Thank you but belt to close to power steering pump pully and its hits the bolt head next to it. Matt is sending one more idle pully and I hope I can put it like 4 oclock of power steering pully. That would solve both issues.
spike
01-08-2013, 12:43 PM
Walt
Had same problem with belt hitting bolts so ordered couuntersunk bolts with allen head centers . These went into front of supercharger and allowed belt to clear heads.I used power steering pump from 08 3500 series GM van. It has remote filler and also accepts my hydroboost line. Only using 2 idlers and seems to fit good. Unit fits good in 68 rebel wagon , much better than i expected .
Wow I wish I had that info. sooner.I am to far into this now. THank you
390spirit
01-09-2013, 12:30 AM
Goops, can you post up pictures of what you have done? or email them to me nrstrucking at comcast.net, (replace the at with @)
i have started to take the front of my spirit apart, should be getting to the assy this weekend i hope.
Norm
Norm phone me around 8am your time 916-747-0051 or give me your number. I am going to take it apart and pollish it and take pictures of modifications I did, but I want to get the belt problem solved first.I can tell you over the phone what I have done, but it sounds like some brackets are not the same ?
Hi guy's cut a larger hole in radiator support for K&N filter. Also motived hood lock down bracket to clear intercooler.At a standstill untill idle pully gets here. Walt
jeepsr4ever
01-16-2013, 03:41 AM
The other way to do it is to use countersunk 82 degree socket head capscrews or countersunk bolts. The distance between belt side and bracket is .25 which works on the 3/8 bolt but rubs the very top but the M12 for the supercharger needs an additional .150 just to slip over the top of the bolt. We are counterboring all the brackets now for clearance -.300. Norm if you want to send back the 2 supercharger brackets we will modify them for you.
The idea here was to use a 3/8 bolt for the 3/8 hole and have clearance and to send out socket head capscrew (smaller head diameter) for the M12 bolts so everything would clear. To make it easier the changes have been made to the brackets so there will be no head scratching.
Thank you Matt, but I think I have a handle on it ,but if I run into a wall I'll take you up on that offer. I am getting a belt this morning if it works out fine,if not I am going to take a little off of the idle pully between the water pump and power steering its tight in there it would give room to change the belt with out taken the pully off.And give clearance between pullys. Again thank you Matt
Turned down water pump idle pully about 1/2 inch dia. Goodyear belt 4060887 worked out perfect.
It will work a little tight here and there but to be expected.More parts on order.What I realy love is I dont have to cut the hood or go inter the fender well.
Geting closer waiting for a $29.00 O-RING that I broke on supercharger moving the discharge around to much,got it now.
I goofed I forgot about the support bars that go from the radiator support to the fenders .More parts on order.
A little done got brake vacuum pump mounted. MSD,OSA Intake in.
Waiting for a black 2.5 in. 90 elbow and a power steering hose from a 1980 Pacer if that dos not work will have to make one up.
This is some of the cuts I did on brackets red tape shows where. I had some washers on 2 each on the middle spacer, on the long bolts a buddy made some longer ones for me.I hope this will be the last time puting it in.Still waiting on power steering hose.I hope this info. is helping you.
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NOT BOLTED IN JUSTING FROM 2 STUDS IN HEAD,WHERE IS THAT POWER STEERING HOSE?
jeepsr4ever
02-01-2013, 01:03 PM
Made a change to clear any and all bolt issues and power steering pulley issues for all shafts (even rebuilt units that are off)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/bulltear/nrebracket1_zpsaa84ec5e.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/bulltear/nrebracket2_zps48026cfc.jpg
jeepsr4ever
02-01-2013, 01:40 PM
Clocked the power steering bracket for 20 degrees left towards the water pump
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/bulltear/nrebracket3_zps03e5e7e8.jpg
Having a difficult time with pully alinement, going to change some pully lengths.
jeepsr4ever
02-04-2013, 02:46 AM
Walt why all the washers? Your supercharger pulley doesnt look like it will sit right. There are a boatload of supercharger pulleys out there.
I have some new spacers ,I will see what happens tomorow.
Spacers look ok find out after supercharger is in. I see the bracket that holds the water pump idle pully on needs some grinding for the lower radiator hose clearance, idle pully bolt cut on the back side also.
Happy day things look good supercharger pully shoud go back a little,called Vortech put on hold forver,hung up. Mechinc buddy come by tomorow look see. Power steering hose almost solved. The pressure fittings on the pumps are interchangeable ,makes it a lot easier to get one.
Still could not get alinement right , took it all apart again. Found that hump on the lower front of power steering pump barely toching the bracket. Ground a little off the bracket, thats history. Now I came to the conclusion that the two bolt holes for the long water pump bolts in bracket not alined to holes in water pump.Going to get friends for a second opinion.
The best day yet, opened up the bolt holes and Wow looks good maybe supercharger pully could go back a fraction ? But I think I will stop here, have to remake some water pump spacers.
Well AMC friends good day here ,work on it tomorow, lucky I'm retired.
Hi gang little more done , getting nervous ,main thing now drop the fuel tank ,install electric fuel pump ,return line for fuel pressure reducer a little wiring and ? IF ANYONE CAN GIVE ME SOME ADVICE I COULD USE IT ,THANK YOU WALT.
Test fit grill hit air cleaner,moved it back a little.
Been sick,car up in the air,gas out,next set it up for return gas line and electric pump .
A little more done. Pic. of new fuel tank sending unit with return line.Pic. of fuel pump and filter mounted under car. Also a pic. of tre Gearvender unit on T-10 4 speed.
Hope to get the engine started today. We just got the fuel line to complete. Going to run with supercharger dumping to the atomsphere for now. Ckeck things out for a few days then install new blow thru carb.,MSD with auto. retard,Mallery dist. with no vacuum advance. Hope we can dial it in. Any advice is more then welcome,thank you .Walt
spike
03-14-2013, 06:46 AM
Walt
Will it not be extremely hard to tune with noise of air moving?
Goops
OK,GOOD DAY,SHE RUNS MAKES ME VERRY VERRY HAPPY. RUN IT FOR A BIT SEE HOW IT GOS ,THEN INSTALL THE BLOW THRU CARB, SET BACK MSD, AND MECH ADDVANCE ONLY DISP.WE WILL GET IT ON U TUBE DOWN THE ROAD.THANK YOU BULLTEAR.
750 RPMS ,MAKES ME HAPPY,WISH I HAD THE OTHER IMPELLER ,BUT I AM HAPPY.
Hi guys drove the car ,Reno said lets go ahead and install the new AED carb. Reno says this is nice then says oh no I think you got the wrong carb? Why? looking thru this cool glass window it has brass floats I think its made to be sucked thru.Dam I know I was looking at blow thru.Oh well we call AED tomorow. The brakes seemed fine on the vacuum pump.One of these days,hoping before I die.
Carp. is set up wrong. Sending it to AED and have them set ut for blow thru.
Well to bring you up to date,it will be about three weeks before getting the carb. back.Guess AED is a busy company.
PUT THE GRILL AND BUMPER BACK ON I SEE I HAVE A POWER STEERING LEAK, WAIT FOR THE CARB.
Extra parts that I had ordered then changed mind,or confused and ordered to many.Want to sell all together.All stainless 2 1/2 in.,red fittings 2 1/2 in. 2ea. black 3 1/2 to3 in.reducers.2 1/2 to 2 1/2 reducer.2 3/4 to 3 in. red reducer.3to2 1/2 90. 2 1/2 to 2/1/2 coupling. 3 in.by 3 ft. air inlet flex line. Heavy duty 3 1/2 hose clamp. Air filter 3 in. inlet. A few fittings were cut and not used. Asking $140.00 plus shipping for all.Thank you Walt 916-747-0051or e-mail Quickamx@sbcglobal.net . If you call 8 to 12 pacific time.
spike
05-02-2013, 01:11 PM
WALT
what did you use for timing retard system and where did you install blow off valve. Any miles on it yet or you tube videos so I can hear it.Thanks for posting your progress as was very informative.
Goops
Goops I have a MSD 6 BTM and a Mallory distributor with centrifugal advance only not installed yet. Drove it about 4 mi. warm here 93 degrees .Idle was to high 1000 rpm. motor getting warmer then normal, called it a day. I did not check the timing yet I pulled of the vacuum advance [ maybe thats making it run warmer with less advance ?] Blow off valve is on the supercharger discharge going to the intercooler. It will be on you tube down the road. Will check things out tomorrow hope to make it to a car show Sunday.
She runs but not good, stumbles we tried our best for a few days. We played with fuel psi, spark advance, the carb was all set up at AED.I called this guy thats mobil and is he good this stuff,used him to set up the motor after I had it built.He asked a million questions like cam,tire size,rear end gears,weight,compression ,then sets a new curve in the distributor using the distributor machine in the passenger seat of his van.He's coming by Tue. I'll let you know how it works out.
Well here's the latest ,the man came by and was here for 6 hrs.$ 230 later found things that we had wrong like fuel psi. gauge off ,and don't use a liquid filled one. The most important one was that distribtor had to much play due to a worn cam gear ,so thats my next fix. Yesterday I felt bad all this time, money, in this thing and its worse then when we started. We called AED for advice ,Jeff [what nice people] told us a few things to try, like going up on jet sizes .Wow did it come alive, still has a stumble around 3,000 RPM .Fell good now replace cam gear and get back getting the bugs out. Thinking about installing a bung in exhaust pipe for a combustion meter hook up. Anyone that can give advice please do so,thank you Walt.
Cam gear shot the dimple between white out dots is from a snap punch,did nothing on the distributor gear. Got a MSD set coming. Someone told me there some soft gears out there and could they lowered the zinc content in motor oil, and I should add some?Can anyone give me some advice ? Please post it or call Walt 916-747-0051 thank you. That was my third gear in tho motors with low millage .
tufcj
05-18-2013, 11:18 AM
We learned about fuel pressure and blow thru turbos on a friends Studebaker. With a mechanical pump, you get about 6-7 PSI, once the turbo pressure exceeds that, the pump cant push fuel into the bowls and the engine starves. Had to go to a variable pressure electric setup to get it to run right.
Bob
tufcj
Thank you Bob ,we are using a fuel pressure regulator that has vacuum line going to a vacuum source thats resets the fuel pressure the higher the boost the higher the fuel pressure.
390spirit
05-19-2013, 11:54 PM
Walt, go with the bulltear matched gears, change both at the same time, DO NOT USE A NEW DIST GEAR ON A OLD CAM GEAR, or visa versa that will almost 100% result in a failure.
use two new gears together for best results, even if the dist. gear looks good, if the cam gear is munched then the dist. gear is junk, guaranteed!
Swabie thank you I am going with both gears already got a set of MSD,did not know bulltear had them.
We got it going with new MSD gears, have a oil pump mid plate and bypass plate on order from Bulltear , with the Zinc oil additive I hope that will take care of the gear problem. We are trying to get a stumble out of it around 2,500 rpm then it comes on nice and strong, we have went to larger jets,that helped some ,going to try larger squrters next. Any addvice out there ? please speek up thank you Walt. PS cant wait to go to a Mopower show later this month, they normaly have a good AMC show up.
Good morning , we are having a hard time geting it to run right ,going to take it to the dyno shop,thay have the know how and equiptment to set it up.Have a appointment for Friday morning I will let you know how it gos. Walt
spike
06-15-2013, 01:23 PM
Any word on dyno session.?
Goops
Yes Mike told me Friday, he got the stumble out of it took it around the block,it falls out on W.O.T. he wants to get a different linkage arm to bring it the secondarys in sooner told him we had one coming from AED got here yesterday .So I hope things will come togeather Monday.
Well I get the car back today not happy puts out 315 HP & 400 TQ thats 20 TQ more and 25 less HP? He got most of the stumble out ,but it falls off at the hi end I dont know what to do except may get a second appenion.
Well here I go again,my Buddy had his motor built here in Sacramento, called [MOTOR MACHINE] have a appointment next Tue. Dam tired of putting $ out.
jeepsr4ever
06-27-2013, 01:22 AM
Carb or timing for sure. You should put out DOUBLE those numbers.
390spirit
06-28-2013, 03:43 AM
is it actually building boost at all, its not by the sounds of it!
even only 5# of boost should pick up the HP by 75-100HP
It starts backfiring Stan ploted it on a chart thinks it will only put out about 6 lbs with this impeller.
Car is in Motor Machine in Sacramento I have hi hopes Don will concur it.
Just got a phone call from Don owner of Motor Machine ,he told me I cant work on my car any more,he taped a hole on the super charger outlet ,installed a gauge found a big pressure drop to the carburtor.Using a remote camera found a rag stuffed up in the intercooler,dam I hope he's not pulling my leg {i've been saying that maybe there's maybe a rag is in there jokeing } All I can say what a shop to have in your town .I will let you know the rest of the storry as Paul Harvy would say later . Walt
390spirit
07-25-2013, 12:09 AM
well that would explain a lot Walt......hope its all figured out now, I wanna see that thing run!
Norm
jeepsr4ever
07-25-2013, 01:11 AM
No doubt that engine should be screaming
Well we got that rag out ,it was mine? Anyway that did not make that much in flow difference. My intercooler is a tube & fin type. Found out a bar/plate flows better? Mine says it flows 750 cfm, the bar/plate shows 1250 cfm ,I ordered one ching ching again.Looking at them thay look like twins. Walt
390spirit
08-04-2013, 11:43 AM
ditch those intercoolers and put a snow performance methanol injection system on that thing
http://www.snowperformance.net/stage-1-boost-cooler.html
spike
08-04-2013, 12:17 PM
Walt
I am in process of installing Meth kit on my wagon , I made a bung and welded into alum pipe threaded it for injection valve.
Norm
You might want to keep your 750 carb you are trying to sell it has annular boosters that you need and a 750 would probably be a good size for your car with suoercharger.
Goops
Goops. You lost me Meth kit?
spike
08-04-2013, 10:05 PM
Walt
I meant methanol injection as Norm posted in post above mine . He mentioned Snow but I am using Coolingmist products. Basically just injecting combination of water and methanol to cool airflow.
Goops
Thank you if this dont work out may try that.I had a 1970 Chev pickup with a small block 400 in it .I built the motor not thinking about com. rato had way to much ,got by using a MSD ping control and water injection and I would add something to the water it was so so,but the nozzels would plug up a lot.
Well we got the new intercooler on and that helped a little ,but I was hoping for more boost.Intake manifold psi went from 0 to 3 psi was hoping for 6 or so.
spike
08-11-2013, 06:02 AM
Walt
what size pulley are you using? I started with 3.80 then went to 3.47 now 3.33 and will probably go to 2.87. It seems as I fix 1 problem it resets everything else. This is with a 6.2 bottom pulley and 6000 rpm. It will be a good combination once We get it all figured out, problem of being first ones to attempt it .Is your belt slipping?? I made a turnbuckle to adjust alt similar to what Marsh have on there serpentine belt setup and has made it easy to get slippage out of belt. I also went to HD belt Green color and more rigid.
Don;t get to fed up were getting closer to what we expected.
Goops
USING THE 2.87 PULLY NOW,THAT WAS AT 5,000 RPM, DON DID NOT SEE A INCRESS IN BOOST, DID NOT WANT TO BEAT UP THE MOTOR FOR NOR REASION
Blown7
08-17-2013, 10:23 AM
What is lambda reading during the pull?
Sorry never heard the term lambda, good for you and your jeep. We are trying to find out why the low boost ? Thinking to much piping onlo 3 lbs.
Well we are now going to install a SI impeller and see what that makes.
Well new impeller came in have a set of Dougs headers on the way when they get will try again, this is is geting old.Sorry i ever started.
jeepsr4ever
10-10-2013, 06:09 AM
You should try using a hand held tach and make sure the belt isn't slipping
Blown7
10-12-2013, 08:09 AM
Lambda is the air/fuel ratio under various RPM bands
Well it's back at Motor Machine ,Doug's headers came verry nice ,heavy flange nice dog leg ports. Just hope things go better. Walt
Well good news just got a phone call from Don at Motor Machine ,he's not don still playing with the jets but its putting out 436 HP and 498 Torque.
jeepsr4ever
11-23-2013, 10:07 AM
At the rear?
Yes rear wheel. Still a few more things to but getting close. Walt
HI GUYS THINGS LOOK BETTER ON YHE REAR WHEEL DYNO IT PUT 550.9 HP AND 485 TORQUE. WE BUYPASSED THE INTERCOOLER AND MY OUTSIDE AIR INTAKE. I WILL PICK IT UP FRIDAY. REPLACE THE 2.5 IN TUBING WITH 3 IN THUR THE INTERCOOLER AND TRY AND SET UP A BETTER OUTSIDE AIR SYSTEM THEN GO BACK AND GET IT RETESTED. WALT
jeepsr4ever
12-04-2013, 08:18 PM
Those are very good numbers around 650hp, so you bolted on 200hp.
390spirit
12-06-2013, 05:28 AM
now your talking Walt, that's much better!
Just ordered 3.5 in inlet alum. pipe for new inlet,and 3 in for discharge thu the intercooler. anyone need my old setup it would be ok for a 360 in motor, Walt
Well I changed the intake to 3.5 in. tube and the discharge to 3 in. After the hollidays back to the dyno at Motor Machine in Sacramento. Darn I forgot how to post pictures ?
jeepsr4ever
12-23-2013, 01:38 PM
Sweet
Sweet
Don at Motor Machine dos not give up, car made good numbers without the entercooler but not with it. He changed the angle of the air inlet to the carburetor and it started to come alive changing jets etc . Then the cast vibration dampener cracked . Last numbers were around 430 HP. and 530 TOR. . Now waiting for a new steel dampner.
Well darn it new problem the baffles coming loose in the mufflers ,I told him change them 3 in flowmasters 3 in pipe over the rear end, the muffler shop said cant do it.but Don said he can cost more ,a lot more time.369
jav401
02-13-2014, 12:38 PM
Beautiful setup but the tensioners on the bulltear setup do not appear to be spring loaded. How do u maintain or even tighten belt?
Dont have one, plan on doing some tging at least a turnbluckle.
jeepsr4ever
02-13-2014, 04:03 PM
Alternator bracket allows you to tension. Gates belts have very very little stretch and a spring loaded idler will give up load with the kind of tension you see in a supercharger setup unless the spring rate is very high.
Yes thank you that would be best, if there is space to mount it. Walt
Jay from Washinton, thanks for the e-mail,I was not thinking and did not save it . Please do it again with your phone number.You called me,but new touch phone,learing to use it and lost your number. AMX is almost done last pull was 477 HP at the tires. Walt QUICKAMX@SBCGLOBAL.NET 916-747-0051
Hi guys here it is final numbers I dont know how to show you the dyno chart but my boy will, REAR WHEEL HP 502.9 TORQ 548.7 ,I AM HAPPY ,STREET GAS JUST THRU THE INTERCOLLER . WALT
DYNO CHARTS FROM PAST TO PRESENT MANUAL AUTOMATIC TO 4SPEED TO SUPERCHARGED. DON FROM MOTOR MACHINE THINKS HE CAN GET MORE OUT OF IT. IM OK WITH WHERE IT IS.
388389390
Hi guys this is it one torky rambler.Walt
392
This is stan..... I'm a frend of walt's and have helped him thru the whole process with this amx for over 20 plus years.!! After getting his amx back from don's motor machine shop, he drove it home and told me i had to drive it.we always go down the freeway and head back to his house which is about a mile away. We use an on ramp which is shielded from the freeway by large trees and bushes. I got on the on ramp, slowly,shifted to second gear at about maybe 20 mph then nailed it. It pulled strong,then, all hell broke loose when the boost came in. The ass end came around to the left about 45 degrees.... Had i stayed in it another half second we would [ or ishould say i would] have rolled it over or done a 360 right there. All we could see was the trees and bushes out the the windshield, i corrected and then all we could see was the slope on the other side of the on ramp. We made it !! Both shook up !! All walt has wanted was a strong street car..... Well buddy he has it!!! That mother has so much frigging torque at low rpm..... And pulls so strong all the way. We crawled back to his place on the freeway,put the car in the garage and went to the bar! Shook the shit out of both of us. I realized i'm [ too frigging old ] to handle it!
Hi guys car is to much for me, but I would like to make it right for my son,or next owner. I know the rear end is the weak link, ford 9 inch with disc brakes sounds best to me. Anyone have advice I would welcome it ,thank you Walt.
spike
05-23-2014, 07:45 PM
Walt
Goops here. I run a 9 in with disc brakes in my rebel wagon. It is out of a Lincoln Versailles and should be the correct width for your car. Should be able to find one in your area.
After you install it you will probably need better brake boost and i went to a hydroboot system. I use Mosher spool and 33 spline Mosher axles in mine.
Goops
jeepsr4ever
05-23-2014, 10:37 PM
Superchargers are a riot. You have to be careful or they get away from you fast. Especially when your not on a track and are staged with slicks.
jeepsr4ever
05-23-2014, 10:41 PM
503 rear wheel hp and almost a 200hp gain is really a good number. And at over 360 ftlbs of torque I would say that supercharger in the AMX should be the cheapest power upgrade per benefit.
Hi I am Walt, if anyone would like information on this supercharger setup ,fell free to call me at 916-747-0051 7 to 9 am pacific time thanks.
Car is in Bunker Race Car shop for a Ford 9 inch Wilwood breaks and Caltracs .
jeepsr4ever
07-23-2015, 03:08 PM
Thank you Walt for sharing your experiences you will be missed.:sa:
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