Cam Help for Ashley's 304

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She has:

'80 CJ7
304
3spd auto
3.54 gears
Edelbrock performer intake
Edelbrock 1406 4bb carb
Fenderwell headers
Flowmaster exhaust

She is looking to install a RV cam but we are not sure which one to buy with her set up.

Thanks for the help,
Jim

[tufcj]

How big are the tires she's running? That has a big effect on engine RPM.
I'm kind of partial to the Edelbrock Performer (P/N 2132) cam and lifters. Ran that setup on my CJs 360 for many years, even with the EFI. Good power and torque down low, good throttle response. It did top out about 4500 RPM, so it's not a high revving cam. It works well for off roading.

Bob
tufcj

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31" tires

[tufcj]

31s and 3.54 gears should put it in a good RPM range for that cam. Any cam that keeps the lift around .450 to .480, and duration around 260*, with a LSA of 110* or 112* should be good for a daily driver/occasional off road machine. Crower, Crane, Edelbrock, and several others all make cams in that range, which is just slightly bigger than stock. With a 4BBL and headers, you need to move a little more air than a stock motor.

Bob
tufcj

[rollbar]

Cool. A friend of mine just miked the cyl walls and the book calls for 3.75.

Her cyls are 3.95, or he said 95.

So he said they about 30 over (I don't know/remember all the numbers he tossed out but he did say 30 over).

The motor must have been bored at one time, that is why I kept seeing crosshatch.

Question, does this make a difference?

Next Saturday Ashley is going to do a three angle valve job.

Thanks,
Jim

[tufcj]

He might have said 3.795, which would be a .045" overbore. 3.780 would be an .030" overbore (3.750 + .030). 3.95 would be .200" overbore, a 360 bore is only 4.080". On an oversize piston, the amount oversize is usually stamped on top of the piston. You should be able to see it if you wire brush off the carbon. This will matter if you're ordering new rings.

A .030" overbore adds about 6 CU IN, .045" would add about 9. It won't make any difference in your cam selection.

Bob
tufcj

[rollbar]

Thanks.

He said something about 70 then 92 = 30 over ???

No biggie-pulling the oil pan tonight to do the RMS and not re-ringing it. Bet one of those valve were stuck or to give us a bad compression test/lots of carbon so it would't seal.

We will see. thanks again Bob

[rollbar]

My friend re-calculated and her engine is 20 thousands over stock.

[rollbar]

31s and 3.54 gears should put it in a good RPM range for that cam. Any cam that keeps the lift around .450 to .480, and duration around 260*, with a LSA of 110* or 112* should be good for a daily driver/occasional off road machine. Crower, Crane, Edelbrock, and several others all make cams in that range, which is just slightly bigger than stock. With a 4BBL and headers, you need to move a little more air than a stock motor.

Bob
tufcj

Hello Bob,can you check this Cam out by Summit, comes w/lifters? What does it mean by fair idle? would that be hard to get a decent idle/having to play w/it all the time?

Cam - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k8600

Valve springs - ? http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/valve-springs?tw=valve&sw=Valve%20Springs

Timing chain - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7818

Pushrods ( I would have to measure the old ones right ? - http://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=None&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=sum-g6400&dds=1

Gasket set - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-ks2001

Thanks,
Jim

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We also looked at these as suggested by some.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1480&gid=287

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=10-214-5&Category_Code=A8CAMSHFTXE

[tufcj]

The Summit K8600 is a good cam, but may be a little too much for a 304. By a fair idle, they mean that lopey race car sound, with the long duration, it would have a lope to it. That's a better cam for 360-401. The other two look pretty good. Measure the pushrods, you'll want stock length with a simple rebuild.

This is the one I like: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2132

Valve springs need to be matched to your cam. Get springs that the cam manufacturer recommends or you void the warranty on your cam and risk rounding cam lobes. Get the roller timing chain, it's much better than a stock one. Pushrods and gasket kits can be sourced locally for about the same price. You'll need the intake valley gasket.

Bob
tufcj

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Thank you -

[rollbar]

Here is what she is putting in the engine.

http://www.compcams.com
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=10-214-5&Category_Code=A8CAMSHFTXE

Cam: 10-214-5
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=10-214-5&Category_Code=A8CAMSHFTXE
Lifters (not sure if these are the right ones for the Cam, have to
call): 822-12
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=822-12&Category_Code=A8CAMSHFTXE
Rockers: 1442-16
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=1442-16&Category_Code=A8CAMSHFTXE
Valve Springs: 940-16 (have to measure hers I guess) http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=940-16&Category_Code=A8Valve

Push-rods:
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CC&Category_Code=A8Pushrods

Have to figure out the push-rod length/valve stem size.

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We are also taking the block to the machine shop for a hot tank and Cam bearing install. I don't want her to use old Cam bearings.

Now to remove the pistons and crank-then check the crank bearings.

If the crank bearings are bad (just say 1), can we just replace the one bearing or does the crank have to be turned.

Thanks
Jim

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On the suggestion of Break-in Oil.

Is that One quart added to the other four quarts, or is that six quarts total of break-in oil?

Thanks,
Jim

[rollbar]

Bob, with the install of the Cam on the post here. Should she degree her Cam or ?

Not even sure it can be done.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=10-214-5&Category_Code=A8CAMSHFTXE

Thanks,
Jim

[tufcj]

Cam and lifters look right. The rocker arms WON'T work on bridged rocker heads unless you have some machine work done and use guide plates. If there's nothing wrong with the bridged rockers, use them.

The stud holes have to be drilled/tapped to 7/16, and Chevy style studs installed. The pedestals need to be milled about .250" + the thickness of the guide plate you chose (generally about .375" total). Then you'll usually need a custom length pushrod. You generally get into it for about $400 in machine work and parts. The only rockers that will work without machining are Harland-Sharp. http://www.harlandsharp.com/amc_jeep_olds.htm

Break-in oil, just replace one quart of regular oil with the break in lube (5 quarts total), or use 5 quarts and this additive for the first couple of oil changes. http://zddplus.com/

Have the crank measured and see if it's still within spec, and check that the journals are still round. They tend to oval slightly with wear. When you're that far into it, a new set of main and rod bearings isn't a huge additional investment. You can replace just 1 bearing, but chances are if a bearing is that bad, the crank will need turning.

I wouldn't worry about degreeing a cam for a daily driver. Slap it in at the "0" setting (not advanced or retarded) and run it. Every aftermarket cam I've degreed has been within 2 degrees, that won't hurt a street motor.

Bob
tufcj

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Wow thanks, Didn't realize that about the heads-guess she will just get new push rods and leave the rockers.

I will let her know.

Thank you Bob,

[rollbar]

Bob, are these any good and can she use her old bridges w/these rockers 0.08" - Then we need to order push rods but first we are buying a push rod checker to make sure we have the right one.

http://www.bulltear.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=150&osCsid=8p3cf2782s9ar1ve2agqgvhvf3

She is going to run this cam set up - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k10-214-5

[tufcj]

Those are good. Looks like you picked a good cam. You can use the factory bridges as long as there's not a lot of wear.

Bob
tufcj

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OK thanks,

[Dusty]

performer was one of the simplest and best running 304 cams I’ve ever installed. 360 different ball game but 304 that performer really shined