Welded!

[Trusty258]

Well, I had the opportunity, to watch someone weld a rear end (CJ AMC 20). It happened Yesterday- My buddy James and I were wrenching on his Jeep as usual (returning it to SOA and replacing one of said garbage 5 bolt lockout hubs)

So He says, "Its getting welded today"
Come back on that?
yup.

So about two hours later we had a reasonalbe facsimile of a mini Spool. I have questions as to how long the carrier will take the abuse. but I Think that the 2 pc axles will be the weak link yet. Hope fully the axles will be the weak link, and the carrier wons blow chunks when he stomps the 360 while in 2nd/4x4 low.

We'll Find out today. One thing is for sure, if/when it blows up itll make an impressive noise.

Jesse

[Trusty258]

Well, we welded the spiders on saturday, and sprung it over. we were not able to put oil or the rear driveshaft back in in one day. soe we left those for sunday. So sunday rolls around and there we were at 9 am with our stuff ready to put it all back togethere. so in goes the rear shaft and the fluid. promptly aty 9;45 we head down into the pit to F@wk off. three passes across the pit in 2 Hi and we dump the driveshaft. We twisted the tube. So. we build a new one, out of the two busted shafts, that is double walled (one tube and a piece of pipe sleeving the innter pipe) that took us four hours. so. we put the new driveshaft in and heacd back into the pit and on the 2nd pass we drop that one. we limp it back in fwd and reinstall with new caps and little u bolts. I wathc for axle wrap and see little but on the third pass he spits the shaft again. Sof far, it has been the rear joint and only in 1st gear 2 hi. So I drive it and tell James to wath traction bar. I make several passes all being quite gentile on it, and james give me the "mash it" signal from a few feet away. So i back off to the end of the straight strech whee he can see the rear axle, I let out he clutch get it rolling and lay into the 2bbl 360. The rear lights up and the jeep takes off like a cat on fire. it starts getting loos and i compensate, the engines winding out so i jab second and let the clutch out.

I was rewarded witha short blip of accelleration, and then a sudden rev out. . I grab 4x and look back knowing what happend, seeing the shaft that we built (thats held without so much as a nick through three drops so far) I get back to the shaft and see two ujoints and the slip yoke on the ground.

axle wrap is a key here, but the straps and u bolts are not holding up, and I wondered if you guys are running the spicere 1-153X's ( ithink the what they are) that we are running, or are you guys running 3/4 ton ujoints? and what should we do to allevieate this problem which is now very aggrivating. We are runninga Cj7 withat 360 T176/d300 combo with an AMC 20 rear, SOA witha traction bar being improved.

I think the at the rear yoke is so beat that its allowing the caps and the spider to give a snap on the u bolts and rip em out

Whew! long post-
Thanks Guys
Jesse

[Toy Maker]

Spicer joint is 5-153X. IF jeep is properly geared for tire size, this joint is sufficient. Check the ears on the yokes that hold the joint in for wear, either that allows side to side movement or for a tapering on the cap contact surface. Replace if worn. If using straps and bolts, they are considered one time use parts, as they conform to the joint upon initial installation. Check U-Joint angles, excessive angle can cause binding over bumps or with axle wrap. With a spring over, joint angles are usually excessive, and shaft problems are typical. Prefered correction involves installing C-V Joint at transfercase, aligning pinion angle for rear joint operation. Traction bars (piviot at both ends) to eliminate axle wrap will help with C-V, angle and length are important. Prefered pinion to shaft angle different with or without traction bars.

[Trusty258]

Thanks TM. I suppose that 3.73s are not sufficent for 33-9.50s. The yoke on the pinion is severly beaten. and I believe that it is the second bad actor in the whole mess, and the main bad actor is the axlewrap. I beleive that thes two things are what is causing this problem.

Is the pinion yoke for the AMC 20 available throu Spicer or should We be looking at a junkyard.

Thanks

Jesse

[Toy Maker]

Yes, the yoke is available from Spicer.Also from 4WD Hardware under p/n 2437411K for $35.95+/- including straps and bolts, plus freight. Replace the seal at the same time, and remember this is a crush sleive design. I don't have the Spicer numbers handy, but can dig them up if you need them.
3:73's are borderline for 33's, not real bad with T176 with V8, but could use more gear, depending on your usage.

[Trusty258]

Well, it all got really messy today. We 'fixed' the traction bar, and played in the pit for a while, and then felt it getting loose and returned to the garage to find the welds had broken mostly due to a lack of fusion.
my excuse was that it wasnt my rear end and I was nervous about blowing through it. anyways- we ripped beat broke that out and started over at the axle end. we welded the mount to the axle very well, (james uncle did it this time) and re installed the traction bar. the traction bar was made out of apiece of 2 inch water pipe (less than optimal i know but it was free) and a large long triangular piece of 3/8 steel plate.

We bent it. about 1 inch ahead of where the triangualr piece was welded on the tube bent. I was miffed.

anyway. we put it aside for the day and will come back to it when the time arises and we have better materials.

So, just wait until next weeks edition. its sure to be interesting at least, wathing rookies and people who have an idea about re inventing the wheel.

Jesse

[Trusty258]

Oh yeah. Both the D30 and the M20 are bent. Im trying to figgure out how to straighten and truss them enough to just play with it.

Jesse

[jeepsr4ever]

dang axles anyways. i am willing to bet it was your welds and your tube selection and your yoke that caused the malfunction, my friend who ran a SOA samurai with pinner axles last weekend ripped his rear u joint out, I cant tell you how important it is to have good contact, 33's arent bad with 3:73's like toy said, i think when you are welding your drive shaft you should turn up the heat to get proper penetration and the same goes for the carrier. Jesse i have never seen a straitened axle work right if the ends are out a little the bearings will not last, maybe its time to run 44's or a 60 44 combo? My 44's under the 77' womped ass all over anybody else with a set of 38's and lockers, the have the clearence the strength and with a good locker they are a tough axle, i am a believer in axle to ground clearence, guys ahead of me barely made it through pits that i walked through..............uhhhhh that mud still gives me the heebie geebies..................lOL

[Trusty258]

Yeah. Were looking at a 3/4 ton dodge running gear. 44 front (wiht the CAD) and a FF 60 rear.
but at this point, i think hes debating putting the 20/and 30 through whatever he can chuck at em till they grenade.

Being that at best he has to sink $$$$ into em anyways even before they were bent.

I mean what worse can happen to the axles except snapping totally in half? :shock: :twisted:

at the very worst. if the 20 completely detonates, Ive gota Corp14FF he could borrow. bent 30 front 14B rear. -That would be scary

Jesse