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78304CJ-7
10-17-2003, 06:06 AM
OK,

I have some question regarding my newly aquired D60,D70 combo they are 4.56 ratio both open carriers.

These are out of a Dodge 350 dually. I did some measuring last night from my Narrow track CJ-7.

Curently front spring perch is about 28 inches (it was dark so I might be a little off) I don't know the WMS on it but from the back of the disk brakes it is about 44 inches. The D60 looks like I will need to cut about 4 inches off the long side to get it somewhere close to this. Does this sounds about right? This looks like it will get me to about post 81 WT specs. I would like to keep the stance of this jeep as close to stock as I can get. Last thing I need is a ticket for the wheels sticking out too far. The Rear D70 is about 67" WMS-WMS. From measuring my CJ the pearches are about 37" on the D70 they are about 43". After moving the perches it looks like I will need to cut quite a bit off the rear to narrow them (about 10 inches total) Does this sound about right? Any help is appreciated.


Thanks

-RJ

jeepsr4ever
10-17-2003, 08:53 AM
The front yes you will need to shave 4"s, the rear is 36"s from center to center, I will be doing a writeup on shortening your rear axle and it just so happens it will be on a d70 so check back often. Even a better route is to use a d70 duelly housing and run your gears in that, some are 63"s wide, I have a d70 with 23 spline axles and a small ujoint yoke but it has 4:56's and a early locker. This is the axle I will be doing the writeup on. You can always outboard your springs, i have a kit coming out but it takes welding. You know i suggest it no matter if its home made, that way you can just cut the axle tubes and install the inner knuckle closer to the pumpkin on both sides, the wider stance of the springs really makes a ride difference

78304CJ-7
10-17-2003, 10:27 AM
I was looking at the pics of that locker you had I thought it was just the older D70 two piece carrier.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/D70/Dcp_4174_small.jpg


Hard to tell. Will I need to get cutom shafts for the rear D70 or can I cut and re-spline them. From the looks they are the same od (about 1.5") all the way so I was thinking I can do this to cut the costs down. Mine is 35 Spline so I don't know much about the 23 spine ones. My D70 is a dually BTW. But my WMS looks to be about 67".

From my understanding CJ NT is about 50 WMS-WMS and the CJ WT is about 55 WMS-WMS, does this sound about right. As said it looks like I can do about 57" WMS with the 60, just not sure how involved the D70 will be in the rear. So I need to take about 10 inches off total to get it about the same as the front. I drive this as a DD during the summer so I can can't hace my wheels hangin' the fawk out there. I know you can do this yourself but I can't, what is a ball park figure to have this done? Are you going to convert your D70 to Disk brake? This is also in the plans. I was thinking of using a 78 Cadillac Eldorado as this will alow me to use E-brake calipers and you can get reman one for about 50 bucks. (Got this from POR) I have 4.56 in it but just picked up a carrier for 4.10 and lower on ebay for 20 bucks, I may go 3.73 ( Flame away) but with the 401 I think I can get away with it and I will be able to maintain decent RPM's with 3.73, wish I had a 5th gear!!!

-RJ

jeepsr4ever
10-17-2003, 10:33 AM
The axle i am shortening is a rear, but i can provide pics of a front soon. And hey man its your ratio...LOL but i will trade you other parts for your 4:56's, i got those carriers laying around and i could have sold youone cheaper......dang guys! But never the less, i will be back with pics

78304CJ-7
10-17-2003, 10:40 AM
The axle i am shortening is a rear, but i can provide pics of a front soon. And hey man its your ratio...LOL but i will trade you other parts for your 4:56's, i got those carriers laying around and i could have sold youone cheaper......dang guys! But never the less, i will be back with pics


Yeah I gues so LOL. He this just popped up on E-bay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2438101444&category=33731

What kind of locker does that look like?

Bummer about the carrier oh well. But if this is for 4.10 it is good for 3.73 as well. So I could use it. So what are your thoughts on the axles can you just cut them down and respline them if they are the same OD all the way?

-RJ

jeepsr4ever
10-17-2003, 10:44 AM
if I were to cut them down and respline them they would need heat treating due to the splining eating through the case hardening, but i will do it or outsource the project. Kinda busy right now.......But i could tell you how much it is if you really want to go for this......i mean after i had them, or you could send the axles to moser...but im thinking around $110 an axle plus shipping

78304CJ-7
10-17-2003, 12:04 PM
if I were to cut them down and respline them they would need heat treating due to the splining eating through the case hardening, but i will do it or outsource the project. Kinda busy right now.......But i could tell you how much it is if you really want to go for this......i mean after i had them, or you could send the axles to moser...but im thinking around $110 an axle plus shipping


Damm, seems alot but I have never looked into it so it may be the case. Did you look at that locker on e-bay that I linked. Kinda funny looking isn't it? I thought maybe it was some sort of posi. As long as the locker is 35 splines (and made for the D70) it should work in my Dana 70 correct, there isn't any strange ones I need to worry about are there?

That tubing on the the D70 is thinck as a mo-fo too :P

-RJ

jeepsr4ever
10-17-2003, 12:09 PM
yea those tubes are around mo-fo thickness :wink: yeah looked at the locker, looks to be an old powerlock not a detroit but let me do some checking because they looked alot alike here is a pic of my axle with a fac clutchless powerlock, although i have been wrong in the past, dont tell my old lady though.....LOL
http://www.imgbay.com/sites/jeepsr4ever///dana0010.jpg

jeepsr4ever
10-17-2003, 12:10 PM
would love to have your 4:56's if you dont use them!

78304CJ-7
10-17-2003, 12:46 PM
Any way I can cross refrence those part numbers to check for sure WTF that i s on Ebay, he did give part numebrs I think.

4.56's for the For the 70 or the 60 you got ones for the 70 already, yes ?

-RJ

jeepsr4ever
10-17-2003, 12:54 PM
I do have a 70 with 4:56's but i am building a hybrid front 70 and looking fro a set of 4:56's. I dont know, try emailing or checking out dana's cross reference tables

Elliott
10-17-2003, 08:38 PM
Just as a note, the 63" WMS-WMS dually axle mentioned above are found on the cab and chassis trucks.

Also, you can narrow the front D60 some by swapping out the dually hub extensions.... unless you are planning to run hummer beadlocks, in which case you would want to keep them to fit the rims.

78304CJ-7
10-19-2003, 07:08 AM
Elliot by going with SRW hubs how much does that reduce the WMS? I am at 67.5 WMS not including the DRW hubs and they are about 4" each.

Elliott
10-19-2003, 08:13 AM
Ok, I'll need this verified by someone else as I am not positive:
1) If the D70 is similar to the Corp 14 then the overall axle length is the same between a 63" and 67" WMS, the variance could be made by swapping out the hub and brake drum assembly.

2) On the D60 front, I believe the DRW hub extensions can simply be removed from the hub to narrow the front. This may require different bolts for the lugs.

If the above is correct that would pull your WMS in ~8" up front and 4" in the rear.
From there you can pull your actual treadwidth in further by running the hummer rims with huge back spacing. From what I have only read, this usually requires cutting off the tie rod arm from the end forging, and using a high steer arm (designed for hummer rim clearance, such as Poison Spyder). Depending on your tire width there may be some body/spring clearance issues... but that is more likely on wider vehicles like the FSJ and your frame is much narrower.
If you are going to use the Hummer rims there are some things to keep in mind and to check out with others who have done it:
- rim clearance with the brake caliper up front
- total amount of backspacing you will actually be able to use

You can get the Hummer style rims with custom backspacing from:
http://www.usa6x6.com/

Spend some time researching this real well before you actually invest in the rims, do some searches on Hummer rims/CJ to scope it out.
Hopefully somebody can verify what I think is accurate. :?:

jeepsr4ever
10-19-2003, 09:19 AM
The brake backing plate for C&C axles is staged closer to the pumkin so it would work

Elliott
10-19-2003, 04:22 PM
So you just swap the hub on the rear for a narrower track?
Figuring that on a CJ he probably will not want to retain the drums and swap drums also, he'll probably go with disc brakes on the back.

jeepsr4ever
10-19-2003, 05:37 PM
hubs between the C&C and fullsize arent swappable.........but now you got me thinking im wrong :?

78304CJ-7
10-20-2003, 02:46 AM
I am planning on going with Disks in the back, either way the drums on that D70 are huge and gotta go. I still gotta yank them off. While you are at it MC if you plan on setting up disk brakes on your D70 make two sets of the caliper brackets, I am going to run those 76-78 Cadilac Edelarado rear calipers on mine so I can reatain the cable E-brake system. I will work on the rears later today and report back what I find. Think you can make them so they bolt onto the 4 bolt flange on the end of the axle tube?

-RJ

jeepsr4ever
10-20-2003, 06:52 AM
yeah ive done it in the past, but unsure about the proper width of the caliper mounting holes on the caddy caliper

78304CJ-7
10-20-2003, 07:11 AM
Either leave the holes undrilled or try the caddy calipers on your rig you can get reman ones from rock auto for about 50 bucks a side. No idea if you can even get new ones still. Or when I get them, I can ship them to you and you can trial fit them??? Sound kool?

-RJ

jeepsr4ever
10-20-2003, 07:17 AM
we can do that, also teh spacers required depend on the year 70 so we will have to look at spacing as well

78304CJ-7
10-20-2003, 12:07 PM
Not sure of the year of yours, mine are 81 just FYI. I think this can be done. What is the length of your axle tubes flange to flange? Just wondering how they compare.


-RJ

jeepsr4ever
10-20-2003, 12:11 PM
51 maybe 51 1/2 how close are you to that?

78304CJ-7
10-20-2003, 01:29 PM
From back of drum brake to back of drum brake is 52 1/2, add about one inch on each side to the flange and I have 54 1/2. Damm, yours look shorter. Wanna trade lol. What are yousr from, are they DRW? I thought the DRW's where the short ones too. What are you going to cut them down to?

-RJ

jeepsr4ever
10-20-2003, 02:18 PM
Just the one side i am taking 2"s off the tube, just like i posted in the drivetrain section to accomodate the AMC drivetrain which is offcenter in a CJ....its out of a 69 IH flatbed 23 spline axles 4:56 and a locker

78304CJ-7
10-21-2003, 08:26 AM
What is the offset of the D70 pumpkin, I looked at mine it looks offset but I am nnot sure by how much?

-RJ

jeepsr4ever
10-21-2003, 08:36 AM
I have never seen one that wasnt centered (rear)

78304CJ-7
10-21-2003, 10:07 AM
I am refering to the pinion on the D70 pumpkin, just to make sure we are talking about the same thing. I will go and check, I just eye balled it and it looked to be.

Strange.

Also I noticeed when you ut you axles down you take the tubing out of the pumpkin everyone else seem to cut the knuckle side. What is the advantage of doing it your way?

-RJ

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