Distributor gear oiling.......

It is very important that the distributor and cam gear are properly oiled..if not they will chip, break or wear very fast and the pieces end up ruining your oil pump (timing cover) and eventually end up opening your oil filter bypass and damaging bearings,crank,cam,lifters and in some cases spleening your roller rocker bearing. Here is a pic of where why and how oil gets to your cam and distributor gear. The large timing gear (upper gear) depending on the manufacturer MUST have these oiling holes or grooves with a recess on the other side facing the front of the engine for oil to reach your gears....Lets take a look

http://mpcrescenzo.imgbay.com/Topgear.jpg
http://mpcrescenzo.imgbay.com/GEAR%20BACK.JPG

how does the Summit sprocket get the oil from the chamfer to the front of the Sprocket? In the other sprocket it has a hole in it to let the oil get to the front. how can i get a picture of mine on here? I hope this is the problem with my Distributor gears getting wasted!

pheonix

The Summit brand timing gear has a slot in the gear for the oil, just make certain it is free from casting flaws

I found my old timing sprocket and compared it to the one i pulled. They both have the same design.. yet i had no problems with the last one. I am at the end of my rope for AMC. If i don't find the reason for this i am not going to rebuild it again. This last distributor gear tore up my pump, timing case,crankshaft, camshaft, and all my bearings from its filings. I would rebuild, but why risk another mystery failure?

:-| If you have it apart you could send me the cover and gears and i could take a look

I have pictures of it on the Engine forum under 304 rebuild part II, if those help you. I can take more pics if you need. I borrowed a digital camera. Otherwise i can mail them to you.

here is the link
http://geocities.com/wpww_tkc/photos.html

Judging by your pictures it appears that the distributor gear is too close to the cam gear! Is that a crown timing cover you bought as new from a vendor?

What about those slots in the front.........got those in the gear?

the cover is original, although there is some wear marks in the back of it from the gear, or so it looks. All the gears are the same, OEM style. The Timing chain sprocket is narrower than the OEM one. I have updated my pictures.

Please don't take this wrong, but I don't understand why a lot of people seem to have trouble with the distributor and cam gears...In 30 years of driving and racing AMC's and Jeeps, I have only once lost a dist gear. Actually two gears, 'cause I didn't figure out the real problem after the first. My broken gears were caused by a lifter plunger retainer wire that somehow got into the oil pump and jammed the gears. Once I figured this out, all I did was replace the dist gear and had no problems for another 7 yaers. I have mixed the gears, not worried about dist end-play and never had a problem. Of course I've never used a Crown cover, and I can understand why that would cause problems, I guess maybe I've just been lucky over the years?

Tom

I have since found the problem, The Cam sprockets oil groove was off about 2 degrees and didn't even line up with the fuel pump eccentric oil groove. therefore no oil was getting to the distributor drive gear. The Gear was a Mellings. And very poor quality i might add. I have since went to Cloyes true double roller and everything lines up perfectly so far that i can tell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeepsr4ever

It is very important that the distributor and cam gear are properly oiled..if not they will chip, break or wear very fast and the pieces end up ruining your oil pump (timing cover) and eventually end up opening your oil filter bypass and damaging bearings,crank,cam,lifters and in some cases spleening your roller rocker bearing. Here is a pic of where why and how oil gets to your cam and distributor gear. The large timing gear (upper gear) depending on the manufacturer MUST have these oiling holes or grooves with a recess on the other side facing the front of the engine for oil to reach your gears....Lets take a look

http://mpcrescenzo.imgbay.com/Topgear.jpg
http://mpcrescenzo.imgbay.com/GEAR%20BACK.JPG

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Oops wish I saw this before I posted in the engines section; that is the same gear my 343 had in it TRW. I had been runnign a replacement MSD distibutor with no problems to the cam gear or supplied installed msd disy gear, with the TRW sprocket.

By comparison the rollmaster timming gear has the grove oil channel design on the inside diameter of the cam hole. It also has the multiple groves around the outside diamater of the hole. However I noticed the summit gear has a "cup" where the "hole" in the TRW gear is, I assume to channel oil, but the rollmaster simply has the grove in the inside diamter if the gear without the cup?? Why does the summit gear have that "cup" and the rollmaster does not?

I looked at the rollmaster gear and it seems like they took a unique approach to the oil path design. Instead of a hole or cup for the oil to flow through they machined a 1/4" recess around the outside diameter of the cam hole, this would take care of ANY alignment problems that have plagued other manufacturers designs, the mating oil channel could be anywhere within that 360 degree channel and oil would be forced into it, THAT was a design! :lo1l:

I was looking at the pics at that URL and wondering where all that dirt came from inside the timing cover. May as well pour the filings from under the grinder into the oil, eh?

Notice how in this pic, the half moon mark on the side of the slot? That is from the oil hole from the cam, The hole from the cam is half blocked off. http://geocities.com/wpww_tkc/Sprocket.JPG

In this pic, not only is the oil groove off line, but it has casting flash in the middle practically blocking it off. http://geocities.com/wpww_tkc/Timingsprocket.JPG
These can be caught and fixed before hand, with a die grinder.
Also, the more chain oiling grooves there are in the front of the sprocket, the less oil will get to the gears, bleedoff. http://mpcrescenzo.imgbay.com/Topgear.jpg Notice that the summit has 6 grooves, the trw has 4, and I believe that the rollmaster has 2. I might also think about enlarging the bevelled champher between the oil slot and oil groove, and maybe filling in the rest of the champher between the oil and keyway grooves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 73hornut

http://mpcrescenzo.imgbay.com/Topgear.jpg

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Well MC's pic doesn't open anymore -but my problem is finding a hardend roll pin for the dizzy gear 111!!!
out of 8 parts places, Northern is the only one that has hardend roll pins, but their 3/16th pin mic's out at .1971 vs .1875 (plus they are 1.01 long, not .75 :roll:
I've checked McMaster Carr and they don't carry a hardend pin that small #-o Empire Machine is next on my list (we do have a semi-local place) but looking thru an 1800 page catalog 111!!!

The $ealership (x3) want's $3-$3.75 for a single pin and it'll take a week to get here :smile:

What's wrong with the world?? :-|

Dont worry about it...just use a spring pin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeepsr4ever

Dont worry about it...just use a spring pin

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And that would be? A non hardend pin?

LoOking like the CJ isn't going to make the trip anyway - don't have all the parts to finish the build (brackets, p/s PUMP {it's still not here} etc) and get it all put back together. I'm still pull'n 10's at work and sometimes a 3 hour commute just to make the 30 mi trip home (freak'n tourists and tunnels - what DON't they understand about DO NOT WRECK IN THE F'ING TUNNEL!!!)

Need pics updated. #-o

For whom? I changed ISP's and don't have any pics on-line right now. Probably could go back to Photobucket :wink: But it would take me a week to fnd them all and another to get them uploaded - 6 years of pictures!!! Sheesh!!!

Some people just need pics along w/the postings, or are we just indoctrinated :shock: #-o :-|

P.S. Some of the "We the People" don't use the directions :roll: :?: I can supply U w/your own hosting service & U won't have that problem :mrgreen: :t:

Well, I had that with COX - about 70Meg worth, but I haqven't had time to upload squat since going to Verizon.

Pic's would be nice to have something to compare to! The what to have and what not to have.

Just Wondering If We Should Be Treating These Distributor Gears Like Ring and Pinion Set Up And Use Marking Compound For Gear Patterns ! After Eliminating All Oiling Passage Issues ?

No they dont need to be broken in like a ring and pinion but if things arent right...alignment or oil passage you will not get any set to last.