we received the 4x8 turnkey plasma table last week. i will document the set up and run off here.
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we received the 4x8 turnkey plasma table last week. i will document the set up and run off here.
first off. no instructions, no documentation.
where do i find manuals? are they in the pc?
where does the thc sensor pmw hook too?
it came in a bag with a plug that matches the cpc port on the powermax 65.
the dcp port looks like a phone cable and there is a ethernet port on the side.
there is an ethernet cable in the box.
what does it plug into?
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps0e579062.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps5993d53b.jpg
i have 2 cables: 'A' from the rotary table i assume plugs into the 'A' port on the control box.
also a cable marked 'B' does this go into the 'HW slave' port? the only available plug.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psd310ff5b.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps63da5221.jpg
how close can the powermax65 and the pc be located? same table/bench/cart? 5 ft away?
can the plasma cable and the control cables; serial and printer cables, be run together without causing interference?
got the rotary table mounted today. have no chuck key for the chuck, can you send us one?
There should have been some videos on the desktop. A goes to A axis and B to the Aux. There is also support files on the desktop. Ethernet connects to PWM to big black box and does not go to the PC. DCP is not required and you have the two cables hooked up correctly. They can all run together no problems. The plasma should be at least 3 feet away from the big control box. Thats great you got the rotary table mounted! They are very heavy!
after posting those i found the manual on the cancnc site. that explained most everything.
also found all the manuals on the pc that i hadn't hooked up yet.
got all motors to jog today. baby steps.
rotary table is heavy for sure
bearings look like could be for a battle ship prop shaft.
just did a test of our new bulltear 4x8 w/ dthc, mach3 bladerunner and powermax 65. the torch fired and cut the shapes i had drawn; just out of scale. i am fairly well versed in autocad 2000 and use it for all technical drawings the drawing is in inches. i had drawn simple shapes ''plasma test'' 2- 2'' circles and 2- 2'' squares and an arc thingy. the circles and squares cut great, they were just 4.5'' across instead of 2'' as drawn. any ideas of what i did wrong?
plasma test
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps01d51beb.jpg
this might be a sheetcam tng problem but i'll post it here too:
so i moved on to my first real project. ''mrt bronco3'' is a couple of simple signs to be cut out of 10 ga mild steel. it took me a few times to get all of the arcs drawn to make 1 pierce per letter, when i run sheetcam it has the outside of one sign cut first then the letters. then sheetcam jumps around cutting some letters in the 2nd sign then some letters in the 3rd sign, then the outside of one sign and then the rest of the letters. how do i move pierce point and the layout of the cuts?
plus i'm a little leery of cutting these out until i get the scale thing figured out.
mrt bronco3
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps88ce9cdf.jpg
also can any one tell me how to do a test draw? or test the cut path without the torch on?
i tried to run the gcode in mach3 with the torch off and z axis zeroed out one half inch above the water table slats. the z axis went past zero and traveled below the slat surface.
received the software disc and the thumb drive. thanks for the backup files.
what files do i need to back up to save all the profiles that the machine came loaded with?
one last thing today; how do i use the play station controller?
i have it plugged into a usb port but it controls no motion at this point.
If your cutting oversize a setting is off. Call in when you can someone here will take care of it for you. You should be next to the PC with Mach running.
thanks for the phone setup help mc. ran the test piece to the correct scale after that.
what files do i need to back up to keep those settings?
the game controller makes life easy peasy too. nice jog/start/stop functionality.
i've read everything in the forum for setting up the table, there's not much on the rotary head.
want to try that out next. can you send me some links or info on the rotary head?
also any way to dry cycle the machine? test run on pieces with out the torch on.
XML file in Mach3 called Bladerunner and Bladerunner rotary. Dry run with plasma off by pressing torch on/off after initial touch off. Rotary is setup to use no limits or home switches. More soon!
tried the rotary head today with out any luck. loaded a cope program in the rotary mach3 program. the y axis took off, y axis should be centered on the tube and all cutting done with x and a axis. tried the tube cut program y axis took off again. so quit that and left you a voice mail. i'll try to call bulltear on monday.
on the plus side... table is working well. cut the mrtbronco4 door roll bar signs and a receiver mounted 3rd brake light cover for the 66 bronco we have in the shop. also cut out some hole test and line test drawings. everything working well. thumbs up on this table. :D
mrtbronco4
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps88ce9cdf.jpg
line test (drawing not to scale)
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps400c0a42.jpg
hole test (drawing not to scale)
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps56577548.jpg
did some testing on cutting holes in 16 ga 304 stainless exhaust tube just using the x,y,z axis's and the dthc with moderate success.
this is for welding in the H on an H pipe exhaust; normally we'd use a 2.25'' hole saw at $12 per for maybe 10 holes (5 systems)
had to use settings for 10 ga steel to complete the cuts down low. lots of dross, but it's easy to clean off.
the holes are 2.25''x1.75'' elliptical
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps5fd5538f.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps7dbba571.jpg
hoping to get the rotary head going on monday to cut out the actual H pieces
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps504692b3.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps5489999f.jpg
We may not be open on Monday. To use the rotary you must first open the rotary button and not the bladerunner button. Our weather is going to be in the 30s below zero and our state governor shut down all public schools. This means no workers. I may be in briefly so leave me a message.
the cold weather is headed our way too. had to leave the water running or we lose water in the shop around zero.
i used the rotary program. probably a setup issue to lock out y axis. i did not find any info on the rotary program in on the mach3 website or in the mach3 manual. i had to manually load the pierce height in the setup tab. i entered the tube diameter in the main screen and zeroed z axis on the tube surface. is there any documentation for the tube program?
If you check the setup area and there should be a blurb on it from your desktop (Setup rotary). If Y axis is moving then we most likely have to toggle the outputs in Config/ports and pins and make sure the X is moving for Y movements for rotary only(But I don't believe that is ever setup wrong). The A axis and X axis move the gantry down the long travel. The A axis is hardware slaved to the X axis which is unique to rotary cutting machines only. So if Y is moving we need to verify the output for rotational movements are not outputting to Y BUT my suspicion is that the interface for testing it looking for a Y axis limit switch. So if you go through to the final test you can opt out of finding the limit for calculating diameter through the test button. This opts out of looking for a Y axis limit switch. The reason we don't use the Y axis home switch for rotational machines is because you can mount it anywhere and often it will not be parallel to the X axis.
Rotary also requires attention paid to acceleration rates. So when you get your tube diameter and go halfway through the test you need to go into the config/motor tuning and see what A axis says for acceleration. The deal is that if all axis are not tuned to the same acceleration rate your cut geometry will not be accurate. So you will need to change the X axis to the same acceleration as the A axis. Often times the wizard will drop acceleration so low it doesn't work well with THC on. Tweaking the acceleration to a usable number with THC will allow you great cuts. At a 2" to 2.5" diameter that should not be a problem. The ratio is 21-1 on the rotary so the max cutting speed on a 2" diameter is around 200ipm and less as the diameter decreases.
not sure how to ground the rotary head, i assume grounding to the table would weld the bearings in the rotary head.
similar to welding on a rearend with the ground clamp on the bumper
this is the interface i'm dealing with (image borrowed from the internet)
i have the round pipe/tube active, diameter set for 2.55''.
though instead of the calculate/touchoff/setup buttons on the right,
there is a tube cutoff function that you set the length and number of pieces.
the rotary read out does not change as the head rotates either
http://www.candcnc.com/images/MP3000_DTHC-Rotary2.png
If the rotary doesn't move then its mapped wrong. You can go to config/ports and pins/Motor outputs and map A axis the same as B axis.
My guess is your not using the Rotary post processor in sheetcam.
no, i wasn't using the rotary post processor. am now
but when i do it swaps the axis's. i did a tube cutoff and instead it slit the tube lengthwise.
i rotated the dxf in sheetcam -90* and it cut semi correctly.
the dxf line is 7.96'' long, which is the same as the circumference of the 2.54 tube
but the straight line cut lacks 5/8'' of cutting the tube. is this more motor tuning issues?
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps565dfdcf.jpg
back on the axis swap issue with x and a axis and not rotating enough.
i cut a circle out of 2.5'' tubing and it cut as an oval, not enough rotation again
also the cut should have started on the left of this picture instead it started at the top where the torch is.
notice my ground strap. 1/2'' copper tubing hammered flat and clamped to the side of the water table with the ground clamp.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps726c37f7.jpg
also want your opinion on the chuck location; should it be over the water like this
water splash is already rusting the chuck and makes that end of the table of limited use.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps3da7418e.jpg
the dthc needs some tweaking too.
for some reason the torch is diving and hanging on the rotating tube and x axis movement.
the cuts above were done with the dthc off, with the dthc on the hole is G shaped
will call you in the morning, just wanted to post these pictures so we could discuss them tomorrow
I will check out the numbers for reduction (It is either that or your loosing steps in the rotary motor (shouldn't be the case) or your lines aren't long enough (DXF)). Also with a chuck mounted you may never get full travel it just doesn't work that way with rotary cutting and sheet cutting. You could modify the mount to sit back further but that limits short piece cutting. There are a couple of ways to deal with running a full sheet. One is to take the chuck off the shaft by removing the 4 3/8 bolts and the other is taking the whole rotary off. You probably loose 1-2"s of travel in 99"s so theoretically maybe an inch of travel if that. If you move your gantry all the way back how much travel do you loose?
There may have been a change to the drive pulley so try 19.35 as your ratio. Also go into Mach 3 settings and click THC corrections to -.02 and leave the positive number at +0.100. You can also boost your antidive to 80-90 and that should work great.
thanks. i'll try those tweaks
PM sent
the rotary table is working well now after talking on the phone with matt. still not sure what fixed the problem. we still had some discrepancy when reversing directions, some were cutting some left 1/16'' uncut. i pulled the cover off the rotary head and found some play in the motor pulley, tightening a set screw fixed that. thanks for getting us going.
Fantastic! Be sure to drop some pics when you can
still working on the rotary table. right now my max speed is 48 fps which is half of what i have entered into sheetcam and mach3 profiles for finecut consumables. we have the acceleration down so low that it takes forever for the rotary table to speed up. we turned the accel down on x and b axis's so the tube would cut all the way around. both axis's almost stop as x axis changes direction on a tube cope. the accel is so low that when i rapid travel x axis, it takes over foot to stop when the control is let loose. in flat work the axis's stop with in an inch or two.
cutting 16ga ss tube 2.5'' and 3'', getting a lot of dross because the rotary is cutting so slow. suggestions?
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps7415bbf1.jpg
my 48 fpm speed is rough calculated by timing the cut.
48FPM = 576 IPM that would be too fast so I am thinking you meant 48ipm. Also did you loose a number in the reduction? The system like any other CNC system that uses acceleration chooses a point to start a decal and that point is further away from the target the smaller the number. If your numbers for division are correct you should have no problems getting a full rotation. The other thing that can cause that is no pierce delay with the plasma cutter on low amperage. Meaning is doesn't pierce the tube for 1/4 of travel.
yes. i meant ipm. i also used fps which would be ridiculous.
honestly, i am impressed with how this table cuts flat plate. i need to post some of my success pictures on flat plate. (need to take them too) i'm so focused on getting this rotary table working that i overlook the flat plate cutting i've done. i drew up a fixture, cut it out and welded it together yesterday and today. easy peasy. i'm getting clean cuts and sharp angles on most flat cuts.
i figured out why the tube wasn't cutting all the way around. or at least figured a way around it. my tube measures 2.55'' diameter, the drawing is 2.55'' around; but i had to enter 2.5'' in mach3 rotary screen to completely cut the tube. no problem there. i figured it out when i cut a 2.55'' tube at the 3'' setting and it cut way to far. the fix/math was easy after that.
back to my problem areas... i'm not sure the dthc is working correctly. when cutting tube the torch touches off, starts cutting and finishes one cut. the next cut the tube may wobble a little from the torch touching off. from what i read of the dthc is it should go up and down as the tube wobbles. instead it goes from long arc to scribing a line on the tube as the torch cuts out midway in the cut. i've repeated the cut and watched the z axis motor; it does not move after initial pierce adjustment. i'm also getting extreme dross on the rotary head cuts. i figure this is from slow speeds and accelerations.
in my extreme dthc test (pic below); where i'm trying to cut an oval in a fixed pipe the z axis does not move at all after the initial pierce adjustment. with my thc voltage set to 100 volts, i see the voltage climb to 128 volts with no movement of z axis. i understand i will not get an optimum cut doing this method of cut but we have a specific need to do this. the thc lite blinks and the thc on line lite is lit. all the tests for z axis reference back to home switches of which there are none.
i will call you tomorrow.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps7dbba571.jpg
You might want to try giving it a 3 second THC delay.
still working on setting this table up. working on a coolant pump setup so i can cut tube.
i'm using the rotary head on my plasma table to cope ss exhaust tubing for making h-pipes. i'm getting extreme slag deposits on the bottom of the tube where the plasma cutter sprays. this is not dross hanging off the cut, but built up inside the tube. this makes it hard to expand and slide together.
thru trial and error i figured out to run water from the water table thru the tube to cool the slag before it sprays on the tube. the blade runner has 2 aux outlets built in the control box. looking thru the mach3 manual i believe i can use the m7 and m8 to turn on these aux outputs on and m9 to turn them off. config -> ports and pins -> spindle setup -> flood mist control.
anyone know how i can add m-code into the g-code to make turning the aux outputs on and off automatically?
this is what i'm cutting with the rotary head
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps504692b3.jpg
this is where they go in the exhaust system
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps5489999f.jpg
and this is one of my first cuts. you can see the slag build up inside the tube, i get minimal slag if i run water thru the tube.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps7415bbf1.jpg
Air mister through the tube or even air through the tube helps. You can try dropping your amperage for tube cutting dramatically.
i have the rotary head working fine now. use a small pump to run coolant thru the chuck into the tube to keep slag from sticking to the inside of the tube. inserted a few gcode mods: one M7 at the beginning of the cycle to turn the coolant on and an X15 at the end of cycle to move the torch out of the way for load/unload of the part.
you can see both gcode mods in the video. coolant on at the beginning and x axis move to clear the part.
i've been using the x axis moves for loading/unloading a lot as most of our cutting is production parts
youtube video of rotary head cut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilc_ldF7eLE
first time cutting thin gauge steel. 22 ga steel, 315 ipm, 120v; dross free cut.
problem is the corners should be sharp angles, like the starts, not radiused corners.
what happened?
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psfcb78af7.jpg
You have exceeded the acelleration and cornering threshold at 315ipm. From here if you want to cut that fast youll need to start to play with the CV settings. CV DISTANCE TOLERANCE is the distance from the end of the line to where the arc starts rounding (.03-.05 can be tried). CV settings do a sharp stop at any angle greater than the angle you set in Mach3/Config/General config. You can try setting CV STOP ON ANGLES GREATER THAN "60" or "80" or even "90" degrees and also click the box to activate and restart MACH. Now here is where the challenge starts. When your cutting the machine will come to an abrupt stop then take off in the other direction. We know that the HAZ will melt away more material without ramping down the plasma cutter. This is the biggest difference besides the actual beam intensity between plasma and Hi Density/Hi definition plasma. Cutting shapes as we send the machine out from us is setup to calculate the algorythm for motion using the acelleration and decelleration numbers for X and Y. Defeating this to gain and exact stop can cause overburn. It is always best to run fine cut consumables and slow it down unless you can ramp down air pressure and amperage while your cutting (RAMP DOWN AIR AND AMPERAGE...THIS IS A SERIAL PORT CANDCNC FUNCTION THAT IS AVAILABLE HOWEVER IS REQUIRES THE SHEETCAM DEVELOPMENT VERSION AND ACTION POINT DEFINITIONS, CURRENTLY NOT SUPPORTED BY BULLTEAR BUT COULD BE RETROFITTED TO YOUR PLASMA CUTTER). The alternative is to increase accel numbers for X and Y to 50 however lost steps may occur.
thanks for that, but no upgrades in our future.
i have no need to cut at those speeds.
just following the cut speed in the hypertherm manual.
what ipm would you recommend?
i was amazed at the cut speed when i hit start.
i called the mechanic over to see, but by the time he got there it was done cutting.
long done :D
luckily that was a test cut for fit
I have personally cut at 800ipm on a Bulltear table but that was very simple geometry on 28ga. 60 to 80 percent cut speed above 180 imp is a safe barrier. The machine is quite capable of high speeds however the absolute stop will cause dross buildup.
i slowed the cut speed and voltage to 180 and 80 worked fine, warped the crap out of it but cut fine.
new problem today with the rotary head.
tried to cut text in a 3 inch tube, turned out like the first pic.
i re ran the text for flat cutting and the file cut fine.
will call you to fix this.
i figure it's an acceleration thing, we have the accel turned way down.
in rotary plasma the gantry is slow to accel and when i let of the joy stick it coasts 18''
in flat plasma the gantry accels great and stops in an inch or two.
text on tube, 'teel' from 'steel'
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps2f18d04d.jpg
same text on 22 ga flat steel
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psf82ef5bd.jpg
Need more info on the cut speed, cut height and were you on center? Also what was your acelleration rates for all axis for that job. It looks like you didnt cut through on some areas and possibly used the same cut speed for flat as you did round.
had to cut some flat plate today, so didn't get to work on the rotary head until late. i thought i had this rotary head sorted out. i pulled the cover off to check the set screws on the pulley. the whole motor was loose, got the belt tight and cut the same text today fine. one problem is i never load the part, i have a helper/trainee that loads the part. had i loaded the part i would have noticed play in the chuck.