Newb Question- WHAT DO I NEED??

[Mudrat]

Well your 360 torque comes on about the same time as mine, but is a bit higher than the Summit cam

Your 401 data is kick ass though! But comes on at ~4500 RPM
4500/50 (gears) = 90 wheel rpm or with 35's is about 4.3MPH

[Goose]

SO In reading your charts. it would seem we are saying the same thing..450 ft lbs at the bottom tapering to 5000 rpm at 9 to1 same cam and 10.2 comp with a few more cfm carb and still good numbers for wheeling.. 288 degree duration cam and suddenly the power band is much higher.. so why the argument.. thats what Im saying also

(Well ok I have said that more harm has come from gigantus carbs than too small.. and that is more owner/tuning than anything)

[Holeshot]

Well Goose, the difference IS around 200HP more for the 401 that will rev!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Somebody needs to define some guidelines for the 4-wheelers, like crawlers - I get that one, but trail riggs need to have a couple of classifications so ppl know what the useage will be. Put-put trail, intermediate, wide-open trails, etc.

I suppose part of it would be where ya live, I know there are places out west where 100MPH would be seen at times, hence the 401 with 200 more HP than a crawler.

My real point is that the heads are designed to rev, with large ports & valves. My theory would be to COMPLIMENT THAT, not DETRACT from that by choking it down with little bitty intakes, carbs, cams, etc.

The crawlers should be using sixes anyway, let us HP guys that can use them have the diminishing supply of 390s & 401s.

[Bam Bam]

Ok so thats great that you posted those charts. but WTF do they mean to me?

Keep in mind I don't know sh*t about this, so you really only confused me more.

Ok, so I do Ontario wheelin. so that includes tight technical through forests and lots of natural rock formations, that could be dry or covered in dirt, moss and mud. The most speed you would ever see on a trail is 30 km/hr and that at the trail to the first obstacle.

Otherwise I am usually in 3rd in 4low chuggin along at a fast walk. But when I get to a obstacle and I need some momentum to carry me through it or I have to pull out a buddy, I would like to be able to goose it and have no questions whether I have the power to make it or not.

I do understand what you are saying about complimenting a setup, and I am all up with that thinking, but we are having a baby so my jeep budget was "removed" so I am not really working with much.

Yes, I would like to rebuild this motor and make sure I won't have any oiling issues that will ruin this one as well, but while I am at it I would like to add a little extra go power. On a limited budget of course.

I have seen quite a few little gadgets on the forum, like cam scrapers (i think thats what it was called) very cool, but do I really need it? Stuff like that.

I do appreciate all the help you guys are providing

[Mudrat]

I have seen quite a few little gadgets on the forum, like cam scrapers (i think thats what it was called) very cool, but do I really need it? Stuff like that.

I do appreciate all the help you guys are providing

Congrats on the New Jeeper

And it's a crank scraper and NO you don't need it for what your doing. Oil mods are relatively inexpensive but will save lots of CDN Cash later on, and your engine will like you better for it too If you're working with time and limited budget, plan it out and do a little at a time. That way you can get it all done right in 'baby steps' (sorry couldn't help myself ) and have a great running machine to take the toddler on the trails.

[Holeshot]

Sorry, Bam Bam.

All you need is a good rebuild, the stock cam will be fine if it is within spec & the lifters aren't cupped. If the lifters are cupped, the Comp 252H will be fine, or most any other "RV" type cam plus a double roller timing set. If you need a bore job, keep it as little as possible, use flat top pistons if possible, keeping the compression as close to 10~1 as practical. Try to get .045" clearance between the piston dome & the cylinder head at the tightest point. If you can get the combustion chambers opened up a bit, that would be great for flow & if you need to lower the compression to get to 10~1, having the heads "open-chambered" is THE way to lower the compression, while still maintaining the VERY important .045" PTHC. If you go much over .045", pinging will occur. I would suggest large-tube headers, a 3.5" (or whatever your collector dia. is) "H" pipe to connect both sides, free flowing quiet mufflers, & as large tailpipes that you can get bent up to fit, an AMC Rebel "Machine" or Edelbrock R4b (or any dual plane) intake, and I much prefer any Holley over the Edelbrock/Carter AFB/Performer, in at least 600CFM, with not much torque loss even up to 850CFM, vacuum secondaries are a saner choice for your purpose.

Basically a high performance rebuild with just a few perf parts will get you a stout 360, so long as you won't be revving too high.

As far as the oiling, just have the extra line added under the intake, make sure the timing gear parts & oil pump go together correctly, & you should be fine there.

I would think that some of the ACE crawlers here would have some info to share on adding baffles to the oil pan to keep the oil from running away from the pickup at extreme angles, common sense would indcate where to add some baffles to the stock pan. Adding to the quantity of oil in the engine should be helpful, like a dual external filter boss and an external cooler, maybe add four more quarts to the system.

Really don't need a bunch of trick stuff - the AM V8 is well designed.

[Goose]

Again I get where you are coming from Holeshot.. Truly I do, I raced an 11 second Gremlin for years..I know the Amc will really breathe and make boatloads of power. And I agree we need to determine the usage of the vehicle before giving advice.
.
and If you notice if somene asks how to make max power I don't say anything..it's obvious that you guys have pushed the AMC to higher levels than I .. but I have built a lot of 150,000 mile stump pulling torque motors.

So It's all good, different knowledge and experience.

[KJMac]

Ya I can understand the little fights, I spend way too much time on jeepkings.ca and we bicker way too much in the winter since everyone is bored.

I do understand what Holeshot is saying, but keep in mind, even with my little 304 I had lots of torque, and I broke stuff if I goosed it.

I would like to add some horsepower, but I don't want to pumping out enough to take a vette in the quarter mile!

For engine mods (i guess you could call it that) I have (from the 304) an Edlebrock Alum Intake (not sure which one) Holley 4 Barrel 650, and Dynomax (I know they are shit headers, but thats all I have) with Purple Horney Side pipes. So no mufflers or cats on this sucker.
If you want more power then junk the purple hornies! The inside diameter is about 2 inches. My input would be to go with a good Cam from a well known manufacturer! The summit cam has far too wide of lobe seperation and they are cheap products. A cam can easily make or break an engine.
So I hope this helps the cam issue. What cam do I need?

And this oiling thing....

What do I need to do? Other then some oil pump thing and such. Sorry kinda dumb here.

[Mudrat]

Bam Bam
Check the AMC Oiling Thread here ... http://www.bulltear.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=25 and if you thought you wanted info, prepare for saturation

For the cam question, that's open to lots of interpretation and MIS-interpretation. There is no “one answer”. John started a Cam Thread here .. http://www.bulltear.com/forums/viewt...&highlight=cam that may provide some help in sorting out the sordid world of bump-sticks. Again, you’ll find it’s a matter of deciding on what you want for performance, what you’re willing to spend, and which manufacturer do you trust. Some board members have had good luck with some brands and others have not with the same name. I’ve pretty much determined it’s a crap shoot. But the one MAJOR thing to do when you get your new stick is carefully inspect it and make sure the flashing is gone from the hole that is supposed to be there for the 304 and up motors.

'Rat

[Bam Bam]

apparently I can get a discount through Keystone and they carry Edelbrock and Crane. I can't understand all the Crane numbers so I asked to have the Edelbrock Performance-Plus Cam Kit Part #2132 priced out.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ain_main.shtml

(unfortunately the spec page is a PDF)

Thoughts?

And would anyone know a compatiable Crane cam for this?

or how bout this one?
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft