Ok time to sign up and guess the horsepower on the dyno

[Blown7]

I'll have to say honestly sell the cast iron heads and buy aluminum aftermarket heads.

Fully ported Indy SR-1s, big bang-for-buck on your blower motor, Edelbrock, much less bang-for-buck with their small valves.

On a naturally aspirated engine, fully ported & prepped (Advanced Airflow or Indy, for instance) 2.08/1.74 iron heads are great factory heads up to .450"~.500" lift, where the Indy heads really get going. So the $1,500 plus $1,000 for porting is not money well spent by someone that could be satisfied with 550 HP, or 900 HP with NOS. Enough HP for a 10 second street machine, before using the NOS, not too bad.

NOPE DON'T AGREE.
Because if your heads are in an as removed condition, you then buy new bigger valves, clearence the combustion chamber bronze guide the heads, add a five angle valve job, mill the block mating surface,clean, remove the core wires, and pressure check,
CC the combustion chambers and port, polish and flow, your half way there to brandy new heads.
I use the half price cutoff to determine if new is worth it.

I don't know how anyone could really expect 40 year-old design factory heads to be AS good as the SR-1s.

At the time I started building this engine Bulltear and AMC forums were not known to me and I figured I had the old AMC performance book I bought new in 1974 and figured that was still the bible of AMC. Later on well the purist in me figured "what the hell the heads are all completed now gonna run em" ( see my join date) lol
The Performers are a good match for the Performer cam & intake, low-end & mid-range Jeep stuff. Not designed for high RPM. Forget about the AFB & AVS carbs, they are from the discarded Carter 40+ year-old designs.

My opinion.

[Holeshot]

Edelbrock tech told me that you may be able to increase their intake valve size a little, but no increasing the exhaust size - so right there you are stuck.

Hello Dave, good day to you.
Thank you for your interest in our Edelbrock Performer and Performer RPM heads for AMC.
We currently offer two part# for this head depending on if you need them with an exhaust crossover port or not.
Both of these heads use a 54cc dual-quench combustion chamber that will produce around a 9.5:1 compression ration on a 401 AMC with stock style pistons.
Unfortunately we currently do not offer any porting services for these heads. If you would like to get these ported I would recommend you talk to Ron Sharp at Advanced Airflow Engineering in Clinton Township, MI phone # 810-294-7915.
Sorry but at the moment we only have flow numbers in our catalog and on our web site for as cast out of the box heads.
Get back to me if you would like to see our flow numbers compared to the Indy 401-SR heads out of the box or the flow numbers for the Indy 401-SR modified and ported.
The largest recommended valve sizes for our heads are up to 2.100" on the intake and up to 1.625" on exhaust.
But we currently do not offer an option for the larger valves sizes.
We know what the Indy heads have and flow stock or modified.
If you are trying to decide between the Edelbrock or Indy heads keep in mind that we use a decent 2.02"intake valve and a 1.60" exhaust valve and that bigger is not always better. Our untouched 60119 heads flow 260 on the intake side and 190 on the exhaust side at .600" lift. Our heads also have an improved oil return circuit and oil passages which all stock AMC 401 suffer from. We have also lowered the height of bolts for the oil drain back holes with intersecting bolt holes.
We have also modified the intake port to produce more cylinder swirl and have improved the short turn radius and an open cross section area and the exhaust port roof exits.
Also keep in mind the Indy heads thicker outer flange area can cause interference with some header sets, which may need
To be ground down for clearance.

Please feel free to contact us for any further questions or problems.

Hope this helps.
Ernesto Garcia
Edelbrock Tech

[Blown7]

Damn I guess Indy is the only game in town, then you have to get their blower manifold too as nothing else will fit their heads, ok I got to add another grand..........


Jeff

[Holeshot]

the Gurus feel the intake side isn't as much the problem, as the "beloved Dog Leg exhaust ports" resticting the exhaust flow out thereby restricting scavenging and intake flow during valve overlap.

The "guru" telling you about the crappy AMC exhaust port is a Honda mechanic?

"restricting scavenging and intake flow during valve overlap"????

That doesn't make a bunch of sense since you are using a blower & pushing the mix out under (low) pressure. I do believe the lower than to be expected 693 HP@5100 & 704 ft.lbs@4000 numbers could come up quite a bit with more boost &, the way I understand it, you are committed to 89 octane? Spend that kind of money & not at least mix 50-50 with 104??? I would at least look at water injection for when the knock detector senses ping.

I was just reading your list of engine mods & you say "ports equally ported to same size (what about flow?) using the Bridgeport", that doesn't quite sound like a top-notch, AMC experienced port job, & where are the flow numbers?

Most bang for the buck? How about a 304 turbo at 797HP/930ft.lbs???

Sorry, not intending to inflict insults.

NOTE: Indy SR-1 heads are a DIRECT replacement for doglegs, no spl intake required.

[Blown7]

the Gurus feel the intake side isn't as much the problem, as the "beloved Dog Leg exhaust ports" resticting the exhaust flow out thereby restricting scavenging and intake flow during valve overlap.

The "guru" telling you about the crappy AMC exhaust port is a Honda mechanic?
No Greg was the team mechanic for team Jaguar. Then started working for Reeves Callaway, doing Austin Martin racing engines, does racing Ferrari engines, and builds the hell out of Maserratis. Joe worked for Callaway too. Denny does something with a Ski Doo engine with turbos that makes 150 HP out of a 3 cylinder.

"restricting scavenging and intake flow during valve overlap"????

That doesn't make a bunch of sense since you are using a blower & pushing the mix out under (low) pressure. I do believe the lower than to be expected 693 HP@5100 & 704 ft.lbs@4000 numbers could come up quite a bit with more boost &, the way I understand it, you are committed to 89 octane? Spend that kind of money & not at least mix 50-50 with 104??? I would at least look at water injection for when the knock detector senses ping.

Well I thought of those options, but I don't want to screw around with carrying and mixing fuel when I'm away from home or running out of H2O or alcohol on a hot day on the interstate.
This is going to be a daily driver.
Absolutely more boost is the easist thing to do. Going to12- 15 lbs of boost just by changing pulleys would probably bring this thing to 800-900 HP easily
The FAST system doesn't have a option for a knock sensor thats one of the drawbacks to the FAST. I do have access the 100 LL Avgas at the airport but again I don't want to have to search away from home. Someday I want to visit MC in Minnesota and I want to just leave home with my Visa card and not have to use anything else.

I was just reading your list of engine mods & you say "ports equally ported to same size (what about flow?) using the Bridgeport", that doesn't quite sound like a top-notch, AMC experienced port job, & where are the flow numbers?

Just dumb old me making all the ports all equal size on a vertical mill and checking that all the volume all the same using H20 no flow bench. And polishing using Performance American style as a guide.
Granted not the most scientific way

Most bang for the buck? How about a 304 turbo at 797HP/930ft.lbs???

Yes fansastic! But that isn't running on pump gas is it?

Sorry, not intending to inflict insults.
And no your not in any way insulting me I like to learn and a good discussion is good for my head.
I found out one important thing, my knowledge in cylinder heads is lackingNOTE: Indy SR-1 heads are a DIRECT replacement for doglegs, no spl intake required.

Ok last time I chatted with INDY maybe we were talking about the 500 plus cu inch engine
.

[rollen dean montoya]

nice numbers the engine looks great and sounded good.
better tell MC to get that timing cover to ya as it would
look really cool i'm really interested in seeing the dyno
sheet. when you do the inspection let us know what the results
are. have pics too!!

[Mudrat]

Damn!!! I printed a couple of your pics for the guys at work and forgot them on the f*(&^ printer
DAMN!!

[BREK]

You starting to get old timers syndrome there Pat

[Mudrat]

You starting to get old timers syndrome there Pat

Today's wednesday - first time I've seen my house with the sun up in a week (for about 30 minutes), ummmm ... wednesday and already 30 hours overtime ... not old, frigg'n tired!!!

Jeep, I know I have a couple because I still have the keys on my key ring ...
I think they are Green and Red, but won't swear to it.

[dbesade]

You starting to get old timers syndrome there Pat

Today's wednesday - first time I've seen my house with the sun up in a week (for about 30 minutes), ummmm ... wednesday and already 30 hours overtime ... not old, frigg'n tired!!!

Jeep, I know I have a couple because I still have the keys on my key ring ...
I think they are Green and Red, but won't swear to it.

Its Wednesday and I'm at 25 Hours of OT.. I hear you on tired.... I need to get those D44's Rebuilt... If I didn't drive my rig to work everyday...

Blown7:
I'm not any expert on AMC Engines, I know enough to keep my own stuff running, but your 401 sounded great and looks awesome. Good stuff man can't wait to see it in the CJ.

-Dave