AMC poops out at Jeg's PHR Engine Masters Challenge

[jeepsr4ever]

Well they do say stock block

[Holeshot]

Rules Part 2:

PRIZE MONEY
Contestants must run the contingency sponsor product on their engine during the dyno pulls in order to qualify for contingency payouts and it is recommended that you contact each contingency sponsor to determine their payout requirements. Contestants may only claim one contingency product per category. The winning contingency sponsors will pay the following contingency awards directly to the engine builders.

First Place- $1,500 per qualified contingency category
Second Place- $1,000 per qualified contingency category
Third Place- $700 per qualified contingency category
Fourth Place- $500.00 per qualified contingency category
Fifth Place- $200.00 per qualified contingency category
Sixth Place-$100.00 per qualified contingency category

CONTINGENCY CATEGORIES
Listed are the areas of contingency product categories that are available in the Engine Masters Challenge competition.

CONTINGENCY CATEGORIES
1. AIR FILTER
2. AIR FILTER HOUSING
3. BALANCER
4. BEARINGS
5. CAMSHAFT
6. CARBURETOR
7. CARBURETOR SPACER
8. COATINGS - THERMAL
9. COATINGS - FRICTION
10. CONNECTING RODS
11. CRANKSHAFT
12. CYLINDER HEADS
13. ENGINE BLOCK
14. FASTENERS
15. FLYWHEEL
16. GASKETS
17. HEADERS
18. HOSES & FITTINGS
19. IGNITION SYSTEM
20. INTAKE MANIFOLD
21. MUFFLERS
22. OIL
23. OIL ADDITIVES
24. OIL FILTER
25. OIL PAN
26. OIL PUMP
27. PISTONS
28. PAINT
29. PUSHRODS
30. RINGS
31. ROCKER ARMS
32. SEALANTS
33. SPARK PLUGS
34. SPARK PLUG WIRES
35. STUD GIRDLE
36. TIMING BELT/CHAIN
37. VALVES
38. VALVE COVERS
39. VALVES SPRINGS
40. WATER PUMP
41. CAM BELT DRIVE

RULE SUPPLEMENTS, MODIFICATIONS and/or DELETIONS

PARTS AND TOOLS TRANSPORTATION (9/20/06) SUPPLEMENT Parts and or Tools for competitive entries may be shipped as outlined in TRANSPORTATION section OR these items may be hard carried to the competition. It is the sole responsibility of the competitor that these parts are on hand at the time their competitive entry (engine) is being loaded to a dyno cart for these items to be on-hand. Any parts or tools arriving late may be disqualified.
All engines must be delivered to the dyno site at least FOUR (4) business days prior to the first day of competition; any engine that arrives "late" may be disqualified from the competition.

LOCATION USE SUPLEMENT (9/15/06) WORLD PRODUCTS dynos/ facilities are banned and not available for use by any TEAM or its entry of the 2006 JEGs ENGINE MASTERS CHALLENGE for a period of 2 week prior to the competition. Dates in effect are September 18, 2006 through October 8, 2006.

(8-15 - 1) Transportation/Rule: All competing engines, parts and tools must be crated and delivered to the following address no later than September 28, 2006. The maximum allowable engine crate size is 36" x 39" x 45" tall, including the pallet. Each competitor will be allowed to ship and/or deliver a maximum of 2 engine crates

World Products
51 Trade Zone Court
Ronkonkoma, NY 11779
Attention: Keith Ferrell, Engine Masters Challenge

(8-15 - 4) Camshaft/Rule Deletion: Mushroom style and Schubeck brand or styles of lifters are not allowed.

(8-02 - 1) Headers/Rule Deletion: Commercially-available headers designed and sold with a removable pipe section for chassis clearance are acceptable but, builders choosing to run this style of header must contact the Rules Committee for a written "header exception" ruling.

(7-29 - 3) Cylinder Heads/Rule Modification: "Domestic OEM passenger car" and "aftermarket OEM replacement" cylinder heads must retain compatibility with unmodified OEM passenger car intake and exhaust bolt patterns. Aftermarket cylinder heads that maintain compatibility with OEM passenger car intake and exhaust bolt patterns are acceptable even if the aftermarket manufacturer has altered the valve angles, valve spacing, and/or valve location from the original OEM design. The Chrysler W-2 bolt patterns are allowed.

(7/29 - 4) Oil Pan/Rule Supplement: Electrically powered oil pumps are not allowed.

(4/15 - 2) Cylinder Head/Rule Modification: "Domestic OEM passenger car" and "aftermarket OEM replacement" cylinder heads must retain compatibility with unmodified OEM passenger car intake and exhaust manifolds and rocker location. Aftermarket cylinder heads that maintain compatibility with OEM passenger car intake and exhaust manifolds while maintaining the OEM-type rocker design and location are acceptable even if the aftermarket manufacturer has altered the valve angles, valve spacing, and/or valve location from the original OEM design. Valves must retain as-manufactured valve angles (+ or -1 degree), as originally cast. Cylinder head decks may be milled as long as the milling does not affect the valve angle more than the 1-degree variance allowed by the rules.

(4/15 - 3) Ignition/Rule Modification: Any commercially available ignition system including points, electronic, or capacitive discharge that utilize a single battery-powered distributor and coil are acceptable.

(4/15 - 5) Air Filter/Rule Supplement: Filtered lids are acceptable and are considered part of the air filter housing.

(4/15 - 6) Rocker Arms/Rule Deletion: Maximum rocker arm ratio is 1.8:1, unless the factory OEM passenger car engines of the same family were produced with higher than 1.8:1 ratios.

(5/31 - 7)Rocker System/Rule Supplement: Shaft-mounted rocker systems are allowed. Rocker systems must be commercially available as defined by paragraph (2) of the rules. This includes commercially available shaft rocker systems for engine types not originally equipped with shaft-mounted rockers.

[Holeshot]

I'm not finding what the Indy block has for bore centers, but I suppose it must be the same, or else AMC heads wouldn't fit, correct?

So that leaves the increased deck height, which could be milled down to stock.

Would have to propose this to the rules committee before proceeding.

[Goose]

you know when you look at the top ten numbers.. these guys (AMC'ers) werent that far off the pace really..

(Also I would like to take this moment for a bit of an observation) if you look at the numbers.. there arent any 900 hp engines on the list..450 to 500 horse..500 to 600 ft lbs torque..those would be real world numbers..
Just an observation, and it does confirm my belief that while 800 and 900 horse engines do exist..they don't congregate in the numbers some would believe.

[Blown7]

BTW Jeff what was the thickness on the top ring land you went with? I am looking at a blower motor build shortly here and I am thinking a .3125 top ring land.

I have to old "CRS" syndrome I'll look it up in my notes today.
I remember that JE Pistons engineering department had to really work at it, given the dish depth and what was left to get a ring groove in there without sacrificing strength.

Jeff

[a440plus6]

BTW Jeff what was the thickness on the top ring land you went with? I am looking at a blower motor build shortly here and I am thinking a .3125 top ring land.

I have to old "CRS" syndrome I'll look it up in my notes today.
I remember that JE Pistons engineering department had to really work at it, given the dish depth and what was left to get a ring groove in there without sacrificing strength.

Jeff

CRS.....I can't remember what that is......

[Holeshot]

450 to 500 horse..500 to 600 ft lbs torque..those would be real world numbers..
Just an observation, and it does confirm my belief that while 800 and 900 horse engines do exist..they don't congregate in the numbers some would believe.

Those 450 to 500 HP numbers are the AVERAGES!!!

Peak HP numbers were around 670 HP, I believe!!!

[82Waggy]

CRS.....I can't remember what that is......

Can't Remember S***

[jeepsr4ever]

[Goose]

Ahh maybe I missed the peak numbers..but My point is still valid 650 hp is not 900 or 1200.. 500 real world actual non bench racing horses..is a bunch (ok maybe short suirts with nitrous etc.. but I am talking about, Build it and drive it..(not on and off the trailer) horsepower.. and If you are averaging 500 to 575..that would indicate that usable power would be something less..(cause I'm betting "Peak hp" would have been in the rpm ranges that most engines see one in a awhile..)

I guess my philosophy is this: I would rather have 350 hp at 2500 rpm..than 500 horse at 7000..