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Thread: First timer putting together a parts list...

  1. #1
    Bulltear forum member New to the forum
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    First timer putting together a parts list...

    Sorry in advance for the amount of ignorance that is about to be unleashed...

    I'm a long time Jeep guy, but I have never had an excuse to rebuild a motor. Until now. I recently picked up a '75 CJ5 that's in good shape except that it has no motor. It came with a 360 short block and I already had a spare set of heads. I already have everything at the machinist's shop. He's cleaned it up and confirmed the needs: .030 pistons, 0.010 crank, new valves and guides. Good news is the timing cover appears to be in good shape.

    Here's my goal: a reasonable street rod-style motor at a reasonable price. I have a torquey 360 in '72 Jeep Commando that is my offroad toy. I would like this one to be a fun street Jeep. I'm going to aim at 350 hp and if I end up over about 315hp I'll be happy. I'm looking for performance from 1500rpm - 5500. Again, I'm only looking to spend money on things that make sense.

    I'm looking for help in deciding what parts I need. There are two overall questions here: 1) what should my overall build include to reach my goal and what can I skip (head work? oiling mods? compression ratio? distributor? etc) 2) What SPECIFIC parts or brands do I need to use?

    I'll use the second post on this thread as an iterative parts list, so check there for my questions on specific parts or to see what items I have decided on. After that post will hopefully be y'all's wise responses to my simple-minded questions.

    Thanks in advance for any help!

  2. #2
    Bulltear forum member New to the forum
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    The Plan (this will be an iterative list):

    Engine:
    AMC 360

    Bored .030 over, crank tuned .010 under
    Oil flow modifications?
    New cam, lifters, and springs
    New valves and Guides
    Valve job?
    Reuse the headers and sidepipes that came with it
    Aluminum dual plane intake
    Distributor to be either a Mallory dual point I already have or an HEI
    Carb will probably be an Edelbrock 600 CFM I already have.


    Parts:

    Dual Plane intake: options from Edelbrock
    1) Air Gap (1500-6500rpm) #7531 $356.83
    2) Performer (Idle- 5500 rpm) NonEGR #2131 $295.50

    Valley Tray: FelPro MS96011 $26.91 ?
    Edelbrock intake mani bolt kit #8534 $25.70 ?

    Master rebuild kit:
    Felpro or Sealed Power kit
    Should I be buying bearings individually from Bulltear instead of buying a complete kit? Why?

    Pistons:
    Wiseco PTS538a3 - forged piston (overkill for me) w/ 9.2:1 (9.38:1 calculated with my deck height). $450+ includes pins, clips, and rings

    Oil:
    Are Bulltear HRC gears something I should be considering?
    What oil mods do I need to be doing?
    Bulltear's increased pressure Cam Bearing: http://www.bulltear.com/catalog/prod...products_id=37 $47.99

    Cam:
    I'm likely to wait until my entire build list is put together before choosing a cam.

    Heads:
    I am capable of doing port matching and maybe some minor blending/smoothing work in the runners. What work do I need to do to accomplish my hp goals w/o overdoing it?
    Do I need to know anything about valve seats or a basic valve job on this motor?
    Last edited by Cj104; 08-06-2017 at 05:27 PM. Reason: additional part numbers

  3. #3
    Bulltear forum member New to the forum
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    The most surprising thing I have found so far is that there are very few replacement pistons that bring the CR up into the 9-10:1 range. The dished stock pistons reportedly give up to 8.5:1 CR. I don't want to have to use premium fuel all the time, but I would like the added efficiency of a 9.2-9.5 CR. But I'm not going to pay an extra $500 to get it.

    Piston options I've seen:

    1) Uses 343 flat top pistons - these are pretty inexpensive, but they land CR at 10:1+ which is too much for my purposes. They also reportedly have weak quench.
    2)Wiseco PT114a3 - forged piston (overkill for me) w/ advertised 9.5:1 but I've seen them reportedly as 9.2:1 also. i think it depends on your deck height. $600+
    3) sealed power 362np - appear to be a quality stock replacement piston (26-27cc dish). $300+
    4) Any number of other stock replacement pistons

    ...updated the second post w/ piston options I'm considering
    Last edited by Cj104; 07-26-2017 at 10:49 AM. Reason: edit part numbers

  4. #4
    Thank you from BT ULTIMUS MAXIMUS STATUS tufcj's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good plan. You won't get the HP you're looking for unless you raise compression. I'd spend the money for the forged pistons. Have the rotating assembly balanced. Spend some money on the heads and have three angle valve cuts (or 5), along with some cleanup of the ports. AMC engines like to breathe, so do what you can to improve airflow. You might look for 70 only 291C casting heads. Those have a smaller combustion chamber and raise compression by .5 to .75 with stock pistons. The only oil mod I would suggest is the cam bearings with smaller oil holes that Bulltear sells. Keep cam lift to .500" lift or less or you'll need to modify the tops of the valve guides for positive seals.

    Bob
    tufcj
    1969 AMX
    1967 Rambler Rogue

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  5. #5
    Bulltear forum member New to the forum
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    Thanks for the input Tufcj. I value your experience and am leaning toward the Wiseco pistons.

    Does this look right?

    74+ engine and heads. Wiseco pt114a3 pistons. Decked 0.010
    Name:  Blue jeep compr ratio.JPG
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  6. #6
    Thank you from BT ULTIMUS MAXIMUS STATUS tufcj's Avatar
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    It looks right. The only thing I'd worry about is if your machinist decks the block. If he does, then you're going to have to reduce the compression height of the piston by the same amount when you order pistons. Get that input from your machinist before you order pistons. Wiseco are good, ran them in dirt bikes for years.

    Bob
    tufcj
    1969 AMX
    1967 Rambler Rogue

    If you need a tool and don't buy it...
    you'll eventually pay for it...
    and not have it.
    Henry Ford


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  7. #7
    Bulltear forum member New to the forum
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    Looks like the Wiseco pistons' part number has changed pt114h3 became pt114a3 which is now pts538a3 (this part number is specific to a 360 w/ .030 overbore). The wiseco catalog shows these -21cc pistons to achieve 10:1 static compression ratio w/ 50cc heads and 9.2:1 w/ 48cc heads, assuming all other dimensions are stock.

    I am looking at a site that sells these pistons for $450 including pins and clips and rings. That seems really low. At that price I can easily justify spending the money over a set of quality stock replacements.

    I need to be ordering parts for this tomorrow or over the weekend. If I'm going to buy the Wiseco pistons and bulltear's cam bearing, should I still buy a master install kit to get all the other pieces? I'm worried about bearing tolerances; I've heard that most bearing manufacturers are pretty lax on their tolerances. Is this something y'all worry about when ordering or do you just buy a master kit and deal with it once you've received the parts?

  8. #8
    Thank you from BT ULTIMUS MAXIMUS STATUS tufcj's Avatar
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    I usually have all the parts in hand before the engine goes to the machinist. He can assemble the rod and bearing, then measure and machine the crank accordingly. Make sure your machinist is familiar with AMC, as bearing clearance specs are tighter than most GM/Ford engines. If you have a TSM, take it with you and show him the specs. I've seen more than a few AMC engines with low oil pressure due to being assembled with GM bearing clearance.

    Bob
    tufcj
    Last edited by tufcj; 08-04-2017 at 08:03 AM.
    1969 AMX
    1967 Rambler Rogue

    If you need a tool and don't buy it...
    you'll eventually pay for it...
    and not have it.
    Henry Ford


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  9. #9
    Bulltear forum member New to the forum
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    Thanks for the additional info, Bob. I chose my machinist based on the fact that every Jeep guy I talked to about my motor plans told me I should work with this machinist. He evidently does a good number of AMC rebuilds.

    I ordered the Wiseco pistons yesterday. I will be ordering the rest of the parts this week so I can get them to the machinist (everything except the cam).

    For valves, should I just use stock replacement valves (8 intake and 8 exhaust for $160) or should I be using stainless valves from Performance AM Style ($270)? The machinist will be doing a valve job and replacing guides.

  10. #10
    Thank you from BT ULTIMUS MAXIMUS STATUS tufcj's Avatar
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    Factory replacement valves are good enough for the HP you're looking at. If you plan on giving it a shot of N2O, then go stainless. You might be able to use existing valves, that will be up to the machinist. Make sure you use valve springs that are matched to the cam. Replace the valve spring retainers and locks. I had an OE retainer fail, the result wasn't pretty. It's cheap insurance.

    Bob
    tufcj
    1969 AMX
    1967 Rambler Rogue

    If you need a tool and don't buy it...
    you'll eventually pay for it...
    and not have it.
    Henry Ford


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