need a hand...

[AJ Johnson]

Hey guys, I am kinda stuck on my 55 CJ5 project here and could use some help.. My overall idea is to have a 350/TH400/D20 in it with a D60 front out of a dodge and 14 bolt rear. As it stands right now, I have a DJ grille and a 77 CJ hood to add on to the front end to give me a bit more length, 2 saginaw boxes out of a chev pickup, both the 2wd and 4wd versions. I am so far planning on putting the radiator behind the seats with a couple of electric fans on it for the cooling aspect. prolly either a 454 rad, or a rad out of a caddy with the big block, I have access to both. whichever fits best. that will let me move the drivetrain forward quite a bit, I think. I am planning on using either a holley projection system on the motor, or the stock 89 TBI setup, whichever I can make work the easiest. I have the 14 bolt out of a crewcab srw truck now, and am bout done with the disk conversion on it, but the 60 won't happen until tax refund time. Someone once told me that ford aerostar ciols are good to use for a 4 link setup, and I nailed 2 pairs of those for free, so I have those. I also have access to a full set of springs off either a mid 70's chev 4X4 pickup, same vintage blazer and a suburban too. The 2 main areas where I need some good technical advice are the suspension, and the possibility of eventually putting in a TH350 with the 203/205 doubler. I have the TH350 and the 203 and 205, all I need is the doubler kit. But, I'm pretty concerned with the driveshaft length issue. I'm not afraid to whack the sheetmetal to make stuff fit, and I'm not even planning on having typical front fenders at all, just welding some sheet metal on a tube frame level with the hood. I'm gonna sretch the front of the frame out to wherever I need it for the suspension setup and the hood/grill setup. what suspension would be the better overall way to go here for the front and rear? I like the idea of a 4 link front and rear, but i'm not dead set on it If I can still get pretty good approach angles and move both axles pretty far. Can you guys see where I'm going with this, and what I want out of it? Any helpful advice and comments are welcome here.

[jeepsr4ever]

Sounds like you are building an AWESOME rig?
here are some comments/suggestions

1.moving the engine forward will allow the use of a th350
2. even with the engine moved forward to use a doubler and a th350 you will need to move the rear axle back
3. OR you can run a Steep angle driveshaft, problem here is that they dont have much in the way of slip joint and they have been known to pop ujoint caps...........reserve this for show/street trucks
4. Remember your starting with a 5 chassis and if you want to move axle and wheelbase you can (dontlet anyone tell you you cant.....LOL) by welding some iron in. This way you may be able to fit a double and a th350
5. Dont forget to gusset your frame!! those early 5's are known for their C-channel frames( )
6. Look to a cv driveshaft for the front and rear
7. Get us some pics of your project and we will do a buildup of such an awesome jeep!!
8. Hope i helped a little

-MC

[AJ Johnson]

I have already planned on boxing in the entire frame, and moving both axles a bit as well. I got the longer hood and DJ grill to move my motor as far forward as I can, and putting the radiator and fans in the rear of the rig. with the motor shoved way up there, that will move all the rest of the drivetrain as well. Along with that, moving my rear axle 6"-8" will really help too. I am moving the front axle only to get a better approach angle up there. I already plan on getting some CV driveshafts, not sure which ones yet until I get the axles and drivetrain located. Also, the area that really has me stumped is the suspension setup. I don't particularly want to use leaf springs, I'd rather do a 4 link or a 1/4 ellip setup, and like I mentioned earlier, I got those 2 sets of coils... but I don't really know alot about 1/4 lips or 4 links, so I'm not sure where to get parts, or how to go about this part. Welding and automatic trannies and motors are what I do well... the other stuff is pretty new to me.
Thanks for the reply, I need all the help I can get! I will be assembling this thing right after new years, and already plan on taking lots of pics of the buildup... I was gonna do several small writeups and one big one of this project and submit it to JP and 4wheel and offroad magazines. You are welcome to have all the pics and articles as well if you wish..

[jeepsr4ever]

The heim joints are what will want also 2"dom tubing depending on which way you want to do your springs.

I think their was 2 companies offering doublers
1. wagoner machine
2. ???

I commend you for doing your homework on this subject..your going to save alot of time. Ive sen it done wrong over and over adn when you get the axle and are ready let me know i may have some time savers for you

[AJ Johnson]

there is a guy over on pirate that makes the doubler kits for $450 that I'm looking at.. I was planning on using either the Heim Joints, or the Johnny Joints.. I like the Johnny joints, cause you can rebuild them when they wear out.
Ive been hearing about 1/4 elliptical setups, but I want to know more, they look pretty interesting..

[Toy Maker]

For all that you want, it would be easier to start fresh with new rectangular tubing, probably 2x3 with a full cage, 2x4 with partial cage, 3/16" minimum, 1/4 prefered. That is assuming that you are going to have some lift over stock, where the wheel well arch is unnecessary on hte frame. The front axle should be forward of the engine as much as possible to give weight ballance between the axles, with the intended usage in mind. The rear can be as long as necessary to allow for the drivetrain, moving the radiator and batter(ies)y to the rear will help with weight ballance.
For a multi-link suspension, quarter eliptic springs are good option to coils, as the leaf can be a "rising rate' spring, where as the coils are continuous rate. By themselves, they are lacking as spring/suspension sustems for lateral location, and the geometry becomes trickey. Aerostar coils will not give much travel, 1/2 ton ford lift coils will give more, custom coils are preferable, but pricey. Do not use the same spring rate coils on the front and rear for anything faster than crawling.
Before you start the project, determine the final tire size and the amount of wheel travel, and build the vehicle around that, with the drivetrain length and weight ballance determining the rest.

[AJ Johnson]

final tire size is going to be 37", and as far as wheel travel... I'm not sure... I was thinking between 14" and 20" each way from level..

[Mudrat]

there is a guy over on pirate that makes the doubler kits for $450 that I'm looking at.. I was planning on using either the Heim Joints, or the Johnny Joints.. I like the Johnny joints, cause you can rebuild them when they wear out.
Ive been hearing about 1/4 elliptical setups, but I want to know more, they look pretty interesting..

AJ here is a tech page on the 1/4 eliptics - MORE also offers a kit..
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/susp/quarter/

TM has been doing wild things like this for a while and I would head his suggestion about starting with a fresh boxed frame. With the mods and axle moves on a 5 frame - it might be safer. You can use the same VIN for registration and stuff, but better safe than sorry.

Mudrat - on Vacation on a dial up.

[AJ Johnson]

well, I think that before it's all said and done, there wn't be a whole lot of the original 5 frame left that isn't boxed, gussetted, etc. so, I'm not too worried about that. One thing I'm planning on, is wherre the frame arches up for the wheel wells, is cutting it off there and just having it run straight back. sort of a true flat boxed frame. the only thing that is going to stay pretty original on this is the body. the existing drivetrain is getting junked or traded for parts, the axles are going to make nice lawn ornaments, etc...lol...The frame will be seriously augmented by 2x4 box iron and tubing, so there won't be that much left.. I'm not at all worried about registration on this, the DMV here has never inspected a rig in these parts to my knowledge... I have the title and I may not register it at all, just keep it a trailer queen, or even get one of those tractor triangle signs. If you have one of those and don't go over 35, you can legally drive on the road here..

[jeepsr4ever]

cutting the rise out of the frame is a good idea, sounds like you will have alot of fun building this pupper!