Suspension Questions

[Tigger]

The plan is to take the drivetrain from my 77 Cherokee (360/T18a/D20/D44's) and put them into a CJ (7 or 8) or a YJ. Tire size will be in the 36-38 range (MC if you have some D60's setup already let me know). The rear on the cherokee is already SOA and I want to do the front SOA with either RE SOA Springs or Rancho 44044's. What concerns will I run into with the suspension, will I have to get a Full Width Axle Kit? and if so why are they all SRS instead of standard. The D44 also has the flat top knuckles so I will be doing a high steer setup. I also know that the D44 front pumpkin is right close to the spring perch and welding steel/cast is difficult... give me some pointers fellas I want everything to go as smoothly as possible when I start putting it all together. Also if anyone has done the Trial and Error on the motor mounts to find the right place, can I get measurements to get it right the first time.

[jeepsr4ever]

I guess one of the first things you will need to know is if you indeed are going cj or yj with a frame width difference it may mean you want to think about a full width kit. *Around here guys with full width kits are harrased* ok that was my crap giving for you......LOL If you run the AMC V8 in a cj its simply a matter of changing the passenger side frame mount, In a yj conversion mounts or fabbing the mount towers is neccesary, I dont believe that yj's ever came with holes for the mounting towers so you will either have to drill or weld them on. The better way for steering is to leave the drag link on and leaving the steering linkage on and when its time to bolt it on move the wheels all the way one way and the steering wheel, then its cut and weld time..........Got a welder? Can you run headers out there? If so hedman makes a nice ceramic coated......or painted. You can run stock springs on a SOA or SUA the 60 fronts have been known to bend my springs (stock CJ) but if you are talking 44044 you will be alright......

thats it for now

-MC

[Tigger]

I can run headers out here, and was planning on that to get rid of the exhaust manifolds with the air tubes on them.

I didn't realize that it was that simple to put a V8 in a CJ sounds pretty simple. I was thinking it would be welding on both CJ and YJ applications for the engine.

I don't have a welder but I will be putting all this together at the hobby shop on base (they have everything I could ever think of having in a shop of my own).

Steering is where I am really reading up on because I have never done anything like it, but I will remember what you said.

[pyagid]

Got my YJ project home and off the trailer today. www.yagid.com/newproject.html and I am going to be doing basically the same thing. I am not sure what i will be running as far as axles yet I am going to call about a few sets of Full Width this week. IN the YJ frame do I still need to Outboard the springs? or could I get away with Moving the pearches? And as far as motor mounts I think I am going to get teh advance adapter mounts for the YJ frame. Going to Run stock springs up front and waggy stock front springs in the rear with a leaf removed. And probably extend the rear wheel base a little.

I was psyched to find out that this YJ already has a Shackle reversal don on the frame. Which would have been a future project for it. ANd it has a body lift in it that I am not sure if I am keeping so i could clock the t-case flat or if I am going to remove for now. We'll see once i have it sitting on axles and wheels how it sits.

Paul

[Tigger]

Paul,

I know they make full width axle kits for YJ's but with the wider frame by 5.71" I am not sure that is necessary to outboard the springs like on a CJ. I think the "YJ Full Width Axle Kit" is just a gimmick to make money on the CJ guys that have gone to a YJ and have used one before so they feel it necessary to do it again. Look at the width you would gain by a spring perch about 2.5" each side so 5", that is damn close to what you gain on a CJ by doing a "Full Width Kit"

I have read the pros and cons of a Shackle Reversal and I am not sure I want to do one with this vehicle going to be driven on the road as much as off road, any thoughts on this guys?

I may end up using an offset perch on the pumpkin side once I get that far and figure out where the perch has to be welded on.

[pyagid]

Paul,



I have read the pros and cons of a Shackle Reversal and I am not sure I want to do one with this vehicle going to be driven on the road as much as off road, any thoughts on this guys?

I was not planning on it with the SOA Either but the frame already has it on So i am going to try it out. We did one on my Bros YJ that has a 4" SUA lift adn it was one of the best things we have done to it. Rides great on the road and off. Only time it causes a problem or a scare is when you first have it in and slam on the brakes the font definatly dives. otherwise you get used to that and enjoy the better ride. A few guys in my club that are SOA recommended i do the shackle reversal as well b/c they were bending springs a lot from bumping the front into rocks and stuff (but those guys are also real hard on the gas) If i really dislike the way it preforms I could always switch it back.

I was thinking the same thing with the full width kits. Blue Torch makes one but it does not look like it really outboards the springs and there is no mention of what they do for the rear.

The other thing i am not sure what i want to do is the rear shackle hanger. I dont know if i want to switch over to a Cj style hanger? (kinda like the design better) or leave the YJ style through the frame.....any thoughts on this?

Paul

[Tigger]

The other thing i am not sure what i want to do is the rear shackle hanger. I dont know if i want to switch over to a Cj style hanger? (kinda like the design better) or leave the YJ style through the frame.....any thoughts on this?

Everyone i know has left the rear shackle hanger as it is. Once I get a frame/tub and the axles out from under the cherokee I will be doing alot of measuring to see what is going to work the best as far as the rear goes.

All the CJ full width kits come automatically as SRS so if I got with a full with kit I dont' think I will have a choice but to go shackle reversal.

[Mudrat]

OK, I'm a rookie at this too... 'Splain to me this "outboard the springs" thing. How, why and what will this do for me?
Whenever my D44's get here they are already setup for SOA, what will I need to do to the frame, springs and shocks? And, yes MC, I have a welder. Now to find someone that can use it )

Mudrat

IN the YJ frame do I still need to Outboard the springs? or could I get away with Moving the pearches? And as far as motor mounts I think I am going to get teh advance adapter mounts for the YJ frame. Going to Run stock springs up front and waggy stock front springs in the rear with a leaf removed. And probably extend the rear wheel base a little.

Paul

[Tigger]

OK, I'm a rookie at this too... 'Splain to me this "outboard the springs" thing. How, why and what will this do for me?
Whenever my D44's get here they are already setup for SOA, what will I need to do to the frame, springs and shocks? And, yes MC, I have a welder. Now to find someone that can use it )

Why - The purpose of outboarding the springs on a CJ is to closer match the original spring perches on a full width axle, on a YJ the spring perches are pretty close to that of a full width axle (see above post for width gained).

What - With putting the spring perches close to original on the full width axles you are keeping the spring perches where they were originally designed and thus putting less stress on the axle by not moving in the perches (Physics and leverage come in to play here).

How - The mounts under the front of the frame are cut off and mounted outboard the frame so the mounts are farther out and closer to the original spring perches.

Measure your current spring perch width and then the width of the spring perches on the axle you want to swap in, if you have about 5" difference in width then I would outboard mount them. For what its worth a Ford HP D60 that everyone love to swap into YJ's measures within 1/4" of what a stock YJ D30 perch, and most people I know that have swapped in that axle do not move the perches on the axle or on the frame.

Shocks, I plan on doing a u-bolt flip and using a heavy duty u-bolt plate that has the shock pin on it so its up and out of the way and no longer hanging down under the axle.

Hope this helps, and I think my research has answered alot of my original questions, except for the steering setup.

Ron

[Rocky]

Moving the shock mount to the top of the axle will cause you to have to use shorter shocks, which will limit articulation.